BSV Forum - General - The Bloodshedpub

Buffy Novels

Dec 11 2007 03:36 pm   #1Nika

Has anyone ever read any of the published Buffy novels? The only one I've ever read was Spark and Burn, and I was wondering if there are any other good ones?

"Perhaps a great love is never returned."

-Dag Hammersjold
Dec 11 2007 05:19 pm   #2SpikesKatMac

Just like any other books based on someone else's characters, some are quite good, and some are crap.  Generally speaking, the ones by Christopher Golden and Nancy Holder are good, especially the Gatekeeper Trilogy.  For the most part, however, you're better off reading some good fanfic. 

A beautiful and ineffectual angel, beating in the void his luminous wings in vain - Matthew Arnold
Dec 11 2007 05:41 pm   #3LindsayH

The Lost Slayer is good, too.  It's set in the early 4th season, and it goes so crazily off-canon that it reads a bit like fanfic, but there's a neat little tie up to bring Slayer and Co. back to their regularly scheduled programming.

I also liked Apocalypse Memories.

Ones to avoid, in my opinion:  Of Blood and Fog, which has an awesome premise ruined by terrible writing; and Little Things, mostly because the cover pisses me off:  it has a picture of Spike, with the caption of "Evil things come in tiny packages!"  Which I thought was just a little tacky.

I'm looking forward to reading Blackout, which features Spike and Nikki Wood, and Go Ask Malice, which is about Faith.

"Do you like my mask?  Isn't it pretty?  It raises the dead!"--Giles, "Dead Man's Party'
Dec 11 2007 06:07 pm   #4SpikesKatMac

Go Ask Malice was quite good; I really enjoyed it.  I also liked Queen of the Slayers, because it gave hope to Spuffy fans, there at the end.  However, since we all know that the novels aren't considered canon and haven't been approved by Joss, it is a false hope.  But I always perk up when Spike is mentioned in the books, so hey!  Whatever works.

A beautiful and ineffectual angel, beating in the void his luminous wings in vain - Matthew Arnold
Dec 11 2007 06:34 pm   #5TammyDevil666

I've read a lot of those books, but I can't really remember which ones I liked.  I used to get all of them, but I stopped doing it.  I guess I just lost interest.  I've also read all of the Angel books, but they just stopped making those.

When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you, and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy.
Dec 11 2007 08:35 pm   #6Verity Watson
I'll second Lindsay's "avoid Blood & Fog." It's the only one I ever read, and it was so mediocre that I stopped bothering with them.

Maybe I *will* brave the Young Adult section at the library to get Go Ask Malice, though, and some of the other ones rec'd here.
You know I've been a good girl, but I hit a limit. ~ Poe
Dec 11 2007 09:33 pm   #7daniel_nieves

The Dark Council was pretty good, except there is no mention of Spike whatsoever. Mentions Angel at least once, but never Spike. Also, the Wisdom of War was kinda cool, but I pretty much stick to fanfiction.

Spuffy peed on Angel...
Dec 11 2007 09:57 pm   #8SpikeHot

I've read The Lost Slayer, which was really, really good.

Dec 11 2007 11:40 pm   #9Unbridled_Brunette

Whatever you do, don't buy These Our Actors. That book is absolutely horrendous. I blame it for the fact I never read another tie-in novel.

Faithfully bowing at the altar that is Stephen Colbert
Dec 12 2007 02:35 am   #10Immortal Beloved

I started reading fanfic because a lot of it was leaps and bounds better than the published novels.  I read about four or five of them.  Only one was good.  It was by Christopher Golden.  I don't remember the name right now (and I'm too lazy to go look on the bookshelf), but the writing was actually pretty good.  The rest of them, including Blood and Fog and These Our Actors, sucked so badly that I couldn't believe that anyone actually wasted the paper to print them.  Usually, the premise was good, but the execution blew beyond the telling of it.  After that, I discovered fanfic, discovered that the fic writers had better plots, better characterizations, better ideas, and much, much, much better writing.  Now, I've read some fic that was just as bad as the published books; but, on the whole, stick with fic.

hehehe.  That rhymed.

Give me Spuffy, or give me death.
Dec 12 2007 03:00 am   #11Spikez_tart

 fanfic because a lot of it was leaps and bounds better than the published novels   - So true IB.  I read a couple that were at the library - they were tolerable, but - gasp - there was no sex!  The Buffy one was a teen book so fairly lame.  And, there was no Spike (hence no sex.)  The writing was dull as dishwater, too.  Also, my library doesn't seem to appreciate the importance of obsessing about Buffy.

If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Dec 12 2007 01:27 pm   #12SpikesKatMac

What I've never understood is so many of these novels treat Spike as a throw-away character; they usually completely ignore the relationship b/n Spike & Buffy, and always seem to focus on Angel!  ARGH!  Did any of these writers even watch the show??  Or is it required that if you're going to publish these books, you either have to be a die-hard Bangel fan, or can't watch the show past S3???

A beautiful and ineffectual angel, beating in the void his luminous wings in vain - Matthew Arnold
Dec 12 2007 04:10 pm   #13Nika

Maybe that's the way bangels validate their ship, by getting it published so that they can continue to say it's 'true love'. I wonder how one even gets a Buffy book published?

"Perhaps a great love is never returned."

-Dag Hammersjold
Dec 12 2007 08:55 pm   #14TammyDevil666

That's one reason of why I stopped getting the books, because a lot of them take place in the 2nd season.  I knew there was pretty much no chance of Spike being involved, and it's not as interesting to read a book without him.

When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you, and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy.
Dec 13 2007 05:04 am   #15Guest

The novelizations are run by Fox, not Joss. Apparently there's a novelization bible that sets the rules that the writers must follow.  Spike is NOT Buffy's love in the bible. He can be obsessed with her, believe himself in love with her, but she can't return his love. Soulless Spike cannot do anything for an unselfish reason. The writer can allude to their affair in season 6 set books, but nothing explicit. Buffy must not be happy about the affair either.

 Angel is her true love. I think she can be in love with Riley in season 4 & 5 set books. I read somewhere once that unless the book specifically centered around Spike, he couldn't be a major character. He is not a Scooby and is not their equal.

As a die hard Spuffy fan, I don't like those rules. I have also read Blood and Fog, which is awful. All other books I've tried to read weren't to my taste and were poorly done. I don't like Buffy's relationship with Angel so I can't read those books.

I have learned from a friend of mine who is connected to some contract writers of tv series novels. They have the contract with the publishing house and they not only don't have to be a fan of the series they're writing, they don't have to do independent research like watching the episodes of the show to get the characterization down.

~Varin

 

Dec 14 2007 12:47 am   #16Izzy

I wasted valuable time going through the many books claiming to be about "Buffy", obviously written not only be people who weren't fans, but who barely knew the episodes, just to find one vaguely resembling something I'd want to read. The stories were flat and stale more often than not and with little understanding of the characters. There are a few exceptions, but I gave up and when I found fanfiction sites it was a glorious day that opened the gates to a never-ending supply of Spuffy and all sorts of fun.

"Blackout" is a very good story, taking place in the past when Spike was in New York with the Slayer Nikki Wood. Spike is allowed to be the focus and how he's described and shown, still evil, is perfect, and we gain a lot of insight into Nikki. "Spark and Burn" takes place Season Seven but is comprised almost completely of memories that are fascinating to read and compare to thoughts and reactions in the book's present and in canon. "Go Ask Malice", "Slayer Interrupted", and "Wisdom of War" also deserve mention. I can't think of all the names, but there do exist a few decent books out there. Still, my heart belongs to fanfiction. Many of the stories I read here are so much better than the tasteless nonsense they have in print. They wrote to please people who would buy the book, in fanfic we can write for ourselves and share it with other true fans.

Sorry for rambling, but I'm devoted!


Dec 14 2007 03:26 am   #17SpikesKatMac

Thanks for the info, Varin.  I always wondered about the novels, and how anyone writing them could be so utterly clueless about the Buffy 'verse, but I guess if you never watch a show, or just read some basic characterizations, that would certainly explain it.  And it definitely makes sense; 99% of the books are utter crap!!  :hurl:

Many of the stories I read here are so much better than the tasteless nonsense they have in print.

I couldn't agree more!  There are a ton of authors whose work should be in print, just on this website alone, but I guess b/c they don't follow the so-called rules, it's just not possible.  Which bites.  :grr:   Fox should pull their head out of their ass, and make a new rule book for Spuffy!!!

 

A beautiful and ineffectual angel, beating in the void his luminous wings in vain - Matthew Arnold
Jan 09 2008 10:45 am   #18angelic_amy

These are my favourite of the BtVS novels, and I've got pretty much all of them. There are definite some crappy ones, and unfortunately it seems like a lot of you have only read those ones, but there really are some fantastic stories out there - I've just been lucky enough to find them. Anyway, on to the list:

Gatekeeper Trilogy by Christopher Golden and Nancy Holder
Book 1 - Out of the Madhouse
Book 2 - Ghost Roads
Book 3 - Sons of Entropy

Blurb/Summary of book one:  Werewolves. Trolls. Sea Monsters. Rain of toads. Skyquakes. Sunnydale is being besieged by dark forces. But even with Buffy providing her unique style of damage control while Giles is hospitalized out of town, it's more than one Slayer can handle -- especially since the abominations are coming from a centuries-old portal through time and space. Somehow, the hell-hole must be found and corked at its source. For Buffy, Angel, and the rest of her gang, that means a road trip to Boston where an ailing Gatekeeper resides over a supernatural mansion that has been, until recently, holding the world's worst monsters at bay. Once there, Buffy discovers the catastrophic truth: the magical structure houses thousands of rooms, all of which are doorways to limbo's "ghost roads," and all of which may bring her face-to-face with the most nefarious forces in hell and on earth -- forces bent on horrific plans far worse than the Slayer ever imagined. 

My thoughts: These books were un-put-downable. If you're only going to read one BtVS print book, it should be this one. Well these three... LOL. I've re-read the series half a dozen times and I'm still not sick of it. CG and NH and by far the best BtVS writers out there (that have been published anyhow!) so really any of their novels are excellent. They really get inside the characters heads and their voices are spot on.

Others worth checking out - and I'll happily provide you with a summary and my thoughts on these if you're interested.
Blooded by Christopher Golden and Nancy Holder
The Book of Fours - by Nancy Holder
Immortal by Christopher Golden and Nancy Holder
Heat by Nancy Holder
The Lost Slayer - by Christopher Golden (series of four short books - although you can buy them in an omnibus)

Pretty much anything by either of them is going to be really good, they've got the character voices down well - unlike some of the other authors who've been published.

I'm reading a newish one at the moment, it's called Carnival of Souls and it's also by Nancy Holder, and it is so witty! I'm loving it.
 

Breathless Salvation - Fanfiction by angelic_amy
Jan 09 2008 12:37 pm   #19randi

 I'm reading a newish one at the moment, it's called Carnival of Souls and it's also by Nancy Holder, and it is so witty! I'm loving it.

Carnival of Souls was a very good read; it was a cool premise, and the author kept the gang in-character throughout, which was a good job, considering. *grin*

I also liked The Book of Fours, but I had a lingering feeling of something missing... though that might be because there was a "prequel" book that I haven't read.

Jan 09 2008 01:41 pm   #20smlcspike

I bought a bunch a year ago at our dollar store the lost slayer was one of them, but I could not get all 4 they also had some Angel one's. The other BTVS books I have read was before I started likeing Spike and Buffy together, it was still in the Angel years.

smlcspike.

Jan 09 2008 05:48 pm   #21nmcil

primarily these books are targated for the Mass Market niche and for younger readers - that is where my local book stores have always placed them - thus they no sex thing - and since Spike was not considered the Star Character - unless the book is spikecentric he will almost certainly fall into the "contributing character category" - For some reason Angel has been established as the "True Love" to Buffy character.  Someone correct me if I am
but I seem to remember that even the last issue of the Buffy Magazine features Buffy & Angel 
together as a romantic couple -

I read Chosen and Spike & Dru (of course) and like a true snob block-head I refused to buy any of these novels with the exception of these two - and now I wish that I had purchased the book with James Marsters as one of the writers - last time I checked that book was selling close to $400.00.

Be sure to buy this month's Simon and Schuster (sp?) this will be the last published novel - it is available from amazon or have your local book store order it and support your local community economy - I will probably try to get the first novel and the last - to go with my Chosen & Spike & Dru.

” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Jan 09 2008 05:49 pm   #22nmcil

at the local dollar store - great find.  I found a copy of Ali fights Superman at my Pic & Sav many years ago.

” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Jan 09 2008 05:51 pm   #23nmcil

guess I have to get Carnival of Souls as well - maybe it is in our library system - hope so

” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Jan 09 2008 06:28 pm   #24pfeifferpack

I loved Blackout enough I e-mailed the author (and he kindly replied in about an hour *G*).  That's the Niki Wood story.

It was "evil" Spike, yes but he did capture Spike's good qualities like selfless love (for Dru at that time) and willingness to do anything to protect those he cares for.  His battle with Niki is shown as two warriors drawn to an inevitable show down of equals too.  His Niki is quite good but you can see it as a battle in war not murder too.

I'm no real fan of Golden or Holder if they have Spike as a character because they are both so obviously Bangel (and emphasize the evilness of Spike) that I am not able to enjoy them.  When no Spike is involved they tell a good story but it's like good fanfic not like a novel in quality IMHO.

Kathleen

Jan 09 2008 07:25 pm   #25Eowyn315

and now I wish that I had purchased the book with James Marsters as one of the writers - last time I checked that book was selling close to $400.00.

You mean the comic? Or did he contribute on a novel, too? The only one I'd heard of was the comic, "Paint the Town Red," which is included in one of the Buffy omnibus books, which sell for under $25 at tfaw.com.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Jan 10 2008 12:10 am   #26LindsayH

Didn't he contribute to Pretty Maids All in a Row?  I saw that on Amazon, and I don't think it was expensive.  I might be hallucinating, though.

"Do you like my mask?  Isn't it pretty?  It raises the dead!"--Giles, "Dead Man's Party'
Jan 10 2008 12:27 am   #27Scarlet Ibis

Yeah--"Pretty Maids All in A Row," last I checked anyway, was at an obscene price of a couple of hundred, for some reason.  Why?  No idea.  I got it for free--found it in my high school senior year in the gym building on the floor.

<--has yet to read it...

ETA:  Oh-- it's lowered to normal prices now :P

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
Jan 10 2008 01:58 am   #28nmcil

Pretty Maids is a neat Spike-Dru - One of the early Buffy Novels had James Marsters as a contributing author - it is that novel that Is a collectible now, the hard cover.

 

” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Jan 10 2008 03:07 am   #29LindsayH

Yeah, that's what I figured.  The one available from the publisher is a reprint.  Is the novel Spike & Dru good?  It's selling for $50 on Amazon.

"Do you like my mask?  Isn't it pretty?  It raises the dead!"--Giles, "Dead Man's Party'
Jan 10 2008 08:40 am   #30Guest

Maybe one of the reasons that they prefer Bangel for the books is because they're targeted to a teen audience. As long as they're Bangel, there's no sex involved.


ladycat713

Jan 11 2008 12:57 am   #31Eowyn315
Are you sure he contributed to "Pretty Maids"? Because after a decent amount of googling, I can't find any reference connecting James to that novel, and he's certainly not listed as an author on Amazon or anywhere else. The only references I found were to the comic (which was co-written with Christopher Golden, who also wrote "Pretty Maids," so maybe that's the source of the confusion?). 

Lindsay, is this the novel you're referring to? Because this is the collection of Spike & Dru comics, including the one James co-wrote.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Jan 11 2008 01:00 am   #32LindsayH

think he contributed to Spike and Dru.

"Do you like my mask?  Isn't it pretty?  It raises the dead!"--Giles, "Dead Man's Party'
Jan 11 2008 01:06 am   #33nmcil

Sorry - if i gave out the wrong info - Pretty Maids is a Christopher Golden -  I believe there is a the novel he contributed to titled Spike & Dru.

” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Jan 11 2008 02:09 am   #34LindsayH

Well, it's easy to get confused, cause they're packaged together as omnibus or whatever, in some instances.  I was confused, too.

"Do you like my mask?  Isn't it pretty?  It raises the dead!"--Giles, "Dead Man's Party'
Jan 11 2008 02:19 pm   #35Joyce
Pretty Maids in a Row is my all time fave Buffy book...followed real closely by Blackout. Somehow I was put off by Ask Malice although it give a good back story on Faith. Nancy Holder's Heat is also quite good. Just keep in mind that there aren't ANY real Spuffy books out there. I've bought them all just to keep up the interest among the professional writers. If we don't buy them, they won't write them.
Jan 11 2008 04:24 pm   #36Scarlet Ibis

Does anyone know if there are any Darla, Angelus, Drusilla and Spike novels, or has a great deal of flashback of them? 

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
Jan 12 2008 05:45 am   #37LindsayH

In Of Blood and Fog, there is a pretty substantial Spike and Dru element, because they team up with the current slayer to defeat Jack the Ripper.  Actually, that's the only good part of the book.

"Do you like my mask?  Isn't it pretty?  It raises the dead!"--Giles, "Dead Man's Party'
Jan 12 2008 12:49 pm   #38nmcil

My purchase of "One Thing or Your Mother" arrived yesterday - I read an annoucement, can't remember where, that the novel of January 2008 was to be the last.  Purchased it as a Buffy Momento - but now I wonder if this will be the last as the story takes place during Buffy's Junior Year -

” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Jan 14 2008 11:12 pm   #39angelic_amy
Carnival of Souls was a very good read; it was a cool premise, and the author kept the gang in-character throughout, which was a good job, considering. *grin* I also liked The Book of Fours, but I had a lingering feeling of something missing... though that might be because there was a "prequel" book that I haven't read.

Well I'm very glad that it keeps up the funny! And you're right about her characterisations, I can't remember the last one I read that was so spot on.

And a prequel book to Book of Fours? Are you sure? Are you talking about the references to Lucy Hanover? If that's it then there isn't so much a prequel as there was another series (of novels) but not a direct prequel. The Gatekeeper Trilogy sees the first appearance of Lucy. If I'm completely off base here let me know, I'd love to read the other story if I've missed it!
Breathless Salvation - Fanfiction by angelic_amy
Jan 15 2008 12:29 am   #40LindsayH
And a prequel book to Book of Fours? Are you sure? Are you talking about the references to Lucy Hanover? If that's it then there isn't so much a prequel as there was another series (of novels) but not a direct prequel. The Gatekeeper Trilogy sees the first appearance of Lucy.

See, this has been bugging me.  I can't seem to find a list of all the novels in chronological order, or how they relate.  I did find an alphabetical list of btvs/ats subjects on wikipedia, but that was the closest I got.  If anyone has a link they'd like to share, thanks ever so!
"Do you like my mask?  Isn't it pretty?  It raises the dead!"--Giles, "Dead Man's Party'
Jan 15 2008 01:06 am   #41Eowyn315
Lindsay, this Wikipedia list seems to have the novels in chronological order, at least by season. Since I've never read them, I couldn't tell you whether it's totally accurate, but it's a place to start.
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Jan 15 2008 01:18 am   #42LindsayH
Say, look at that!  I must have been looking with my eyes closed before.  Thanks, Eowyn!
"Do you like my mask?  Isn't it pretty?  It raises the dead!"--Giles, "Dead Man's Party'
Jan 22 2008 05:07 am   #43angelic_amy
That list looks pretty accurate, I own and have read most of them. So thanks for the link!
Breathless Salvation - Fanfiction by angelic_amy