BSV Forum - General - The Bloodshedpub

Spike and Warren

Dec 21 2007 04:16 pm   #1goldenusagi

I was thinking about all the "real world knowledge" and Scooby profiles Spike gave to Warren for him to build the perfect Buffy.  Anyone ever wonder if this inside scoop on the Slayer, demons, and magic influenced Warren's decision to come back, take over Sunnydale, and do different "Buffy challenges"?

Dec 21 2007 04:25 pm   #2Scarlet Ibis

Hmm...not necessarily.  Warren could've figured it was just some elaborate role play.  Like the robot's responses (the whole can't stake Spike cause of his sinister attraction thing)...I think Warren just wanted to hurry and make the damn thing so he could leave.  I think Jonathan may have brought the focus on Buffy--he knew the most about her and her not so secret identity after all.

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
Dec 21 2007 09:59 pm   #3Immortal Beloved

I think Warren wanted to make the Buffy Bot as quickly as possible and get the hell out of Dodge before Spike killed him.  Warren didn't know that Spike had a chip, and Spike certainly wouldn't put knowledge of his chip into the robot as he hates being reminded that he is toothless.  In fact, the Buffy Bot has that whole "devour me" thing with Spike.  So, it may be safe to say that she wasn't programmed with anything regarding the chip.  Oh!  I just remembered that, when Spike goes to Warren to find out if the chip is still working, Warren says that he doesn't know what the chip's function is.  So, no, the Bot had no clue about the chip.  And that was a very long tangent that I just went on... :-P

Anyway, I think my original point was that you bring up a good point.  It's feasible that Warren did know about Buffy being the Slayer prior to building the Bot.  He attended Sunnydale High, but he graduated a few years (I think) before the Scoobies.  BUT, certainly, it IS possible that Spike's information for the Bot gave Warren information about Buffy and the Slayerettes.  It would have had all sorts of info about her friends, etc.  Warren could have definitely used it to know where to set up the cameras and where to spy.  Of course, it's just as possible that Andrew knew a lot, as well.

I'd say that, if you're, say, thinking of an idea for a fic, it might be feasible enough to be believable :-)

Give me Spuffy, or give me death.
Dec 22 2007 12:29 am   #4Eowyn315

The Bot does seem to know about the chip, though:

Spike: You know I can't bite you.
Buffybot: I think you can. I think you can if I let you, and I wanna let you.

It sounds like Spike is assuming she knows about the chip. He could just be getting into the role-playing (since the real Buffy knows about the chip), but she's obviously taking into consideration that she has to "let" him (so it doesn't cause pain), even though the chip wouldn't have worked on the robot anyway.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Dec 22 2007 10:12 pm   #5Izzy

If anyone has seen the episode with the Buffy-bot when it goes to her point of view, she doesn't have the 'tons of real world knowledge' Warren claimed. Seeing her friends scrolled up their names and the most basic, impersonal info. like Rosenberg, Willow. Best Friend. Good with computers. Gay 1999-present (though I can't remember the exact date). The only thing I would calls personal is that Anya likes money. Other than that, it's basic position in Buffy's life as a friend, and a job, and maybe a snippet of obvious hobby. I don't know how useful any of that would be to Warren because it's stuff he could have found out pretty easily on his own.


Dec 22 2007 11:06 pm   #6Eowyn315

The physical skills might have been a help to him - Spike obviously had her programmed to be able to slay vampires and hold her own in a fight, so Warren would have an idea of what she was capable of physically. When you think about it, most of the "Slayer secret" is physical ability - super strength, fighting skills, aim, balance, healing abilities, heightened senses, etc.

It's not like Warren ever really challenged her based on any intimate knowledge of her (or even common knowledge). He didn't try to use her friends against her or kidnap Dawn or play on her numerous insecurities and issues. He was more interested in acting out comic book supervillain schemes, so really, knowing her physical capabilities is probably more of an asset.

Or maybe it just opened Warren up to the knowledge of vampires and demons in general. Before he met Buffy, he was just a techie - he built robots and played around with computers. He never did any magic or dealt with demons. Maybe Spike piqued his interest with the "real world knowledge" and that interest is what led him to take up with Andrew and Jonathan, as opposed to other, less supernaturally-inclined nerds.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Dec 23 2007 01:03 am   #7Scarlet Ibis

I still think it was Jonathan.  Warren doesn't mind killing her or wanting her dead for some reason, but it's Jonathan who points out that she's too strong, and therefore, they can't kill her for that anyway (moral issues and mess aside).  Warren's initial reasons for taking over Sunnydale begin with boredom, and ultimately had nothing to do with Buffy (at first).  He only thinks of it after returning to Sunnydale some time later.

WARREN: It's her or us. I mean, we have to do it.
ANDREW: We're talking about murder.
WARREN: No, we're talking about staying alive, and since this is my mom's house, I think what I say goes.
ANDREW: But aside from the moral issues, and the mess, we can get in trouble for murder.
WARREN: Duh! You know, the last I checked, the authorities also frowned on bank robbery too. Genius!
JONATHAN: I don't even know if we could kill Buffy. She's got super-strength.
ANDREW: And, you know, killing people, this is not why we got together in the first place.
JONATHAN: Yeah. We teamed up with one clear, super-cool mission statement. Remember?

Flash-cut to the three of them in the basement, sitting around a table with cans of soda, playing a board game.

WARREN: So ... you guys wanna team up and take over Sunnydale?

Andrew and Jonathan look at each other, shrug.

ANDREW/JONATHAN: (unison) Okay.

Flash back to the present.

WARREN: Of course I remember. It was last month.
JONATHAN: Then you know we have a mission! (points) Shrink rays...

We see what he's pointing at. It's a whiteboard labeled at the top "TO DO" and including the following items:

  • Control The Weather
  • Miniaturize Fort Knox
  • Conjure Fake I.D.s
  • Shrink Ray
  • Girls
  • Girls
  • The Gorilla Thing

JONATHAN: ...trained gorillas. Workable prototype jetpacks ... and chicks, chicks, chicks. I know that's the action I signed on for.
ANDREW: Me too. Ixnay on the urder-may.
WARREN: (frustrated) Vote.
JONATHAN: Okay. Who's for not killing Buffy?

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
Dec 23 2007 01:09 am   #8Spikez_tart

When did they know and when did they know it?

Season 3

Jonathan sees Buffy crash through the tower window to stop him from shooting up the school (so she thinks).  He must know at that point that she has some special skills.  At the Prom he gives Buffy the Class Protector Umbrella.  Also at the Prom, Andrew's brother Tucker unleashes the Hellhounds.  Hard to imagine Andrew missing that event.

Season 4

In Superstar, Jonathan knows that Buffy is the Slayer and he snitches her role in order to feel heroic himself.  He also knows that Spike is a vampire:

Jonathan:  "Vampires only form nests to make hunting easier.
They're not big on the cooperation.  They mostly like to hang
out all creepy and alone in the shadows.  Don't you agree... "
[turning head] "Spike?"

Season 5

In I Was Made to Love You - we see Warren for the first time:

BUFFY: My name is Buffy Summers. We were at Sunnydale High together. Do you know who I am?
WARREN: Yes, I know.

It's not clear whether Warren knows that she's Buffy or that she's the Slayer.  Also, I don't think we've seen Warren and the other two knuckleheads together yet, so we don't know if Jonathan or Andrew have passed on their knowledge.

At the end of IWMTLY, Spike places his order for a Buffybot: 

WARREN: How, how'd you get in here?
SPIKE: Your mum let me in.
Warren's question implies that he knows that Spike is a vampire, so couldn't just walk into his house. 

In Intervention, Spike picks up the Bott.  Warren is very nervous - because he knows Spike is a vampire?  If Warren knew about the chip, he wouldn't be scared. 

WARREN: Hey, she's, uh, great. You'll be real happy, I swear, she's got everything you asked for. All the extra programming, tons of real-world knowledge, the profiles you gave me about her family and friends.
SPIKE: *All* the extra programming, right?
WARREN: Ah, the, the stuff that you wanted, the, uh, scenario responses, you know, the, uh, uh, special ... skills ... (nervous laugh) All of it. Now, you said that I could leave-

The programming ideas apparently all come from Spike - why would he let the Bot know about his weakness?  Doesn't seem likely.  Also, when he says he can't bite her - they're running through a scenario that Spike wrote - her response is what he wants her to say.  It's possible that the Bot could figure it out or heard it from one of the gang later.

Season 6 - Spike realizes he can hit Buffy and goes to Warren to check out the chip in his head.  Warren has no idea what he's talking about.

SPIKE: Knock knock, robot boy. (knocks on Warren's head) Need you to look at my chip.
JONATHAN: Is that like, British slang or something? 'Cause we're not-
SPIKE: In my head, the chip in my head.
WARREN: We're kind of in the middle of something.

Andrew doesn't know who Spike is.  Jonathan does, but it isn't clear that he knows Spike is a vampire:

ANDREW: Dudes, I think that's Spike.
JONATHAN: Of course it is, and he's evil.

Warren checks out Spike's chip:

SPIKE: Help me out here, Spock, I don't speak loser. (gives papers back)
WARREN: Okay, right, um ... your chip works fine, yeah.
SPIKE: (frowns) There's gotta be something wrong-
WARREN: No, no, listen. I don't know what that thing does ... I'd like to... (leans closer)
Later:

SPIKE: You tell anyone about this...
WARREN: No, I promise. Who would I tell, I don't even know what this is about!

Why doesn't Warren know?  Did Jonathan forget everything he learned about the gang in Superstar? 

Sorry for the long post.

 

If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Dec 23 2007 01:15 am   #9Scarlet Ibis

I don't think Warren was all in the know.  He knows Spike's a vamp, but not about the chip (and clearly, Jonathan forgets. But then, after his "Superstar" spell, soon after, everyone forgets how it was, and the things they learned once the spell is dissolved, so that could explain it).  Also, yeah, Warren could know who she was, but not necessarily that she was the slayer.  Not everyone was privvy to Buffy's super powers, just that she was usually around to help when there was a problem.  Holden Webster is a good example--he didn't know she was all "lady of the night," but knew she was mysterious, and was dating some old guy.  Most people didn't know about her, or had all the facts straight.  It's feasible.

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
Dec 23 2007 03:15 am   #10goldenusagi

I always wondered how much Warren knew about Buffy.  The scene in In I Was Made to Love You when he says he knows who Buffy is is pretty ambiguous.  Though at the end of that ep, when Spike places his order is even more interesting, since Warren seems nervous.  If he knows that Spike is a vamp (though clearly doesn't know about the chip), he might know that Buffy is the Slayer, or at least has something to do with all the weird nocturnal Sunnydale things.  And of course, you're right, Scarlet, that Jonathan was in more of a position to know about Buffy since he graduated in her class, and might have filled Warren in.

Dec 23 2007 04:55 am   #11Eowyn315

I haven't listened to the commentary on IWMTLY in a while, but I think Jane Espenson says that Warren was supposed to know she was the Slayer. The reason they made him a former classmate was so that she wouldn't have to go through the whole "I'm the Slayer" routine when she shows up at his house - she could just say, "You know who I am?" and he'd say yes. When you think about it, if he didn't know she was the Slayer, it'd seem a little weird for her to show up and start interrogating him about his robot girlfriend.

It's never explained for certain if Warren knows Spike's a vampire (or if he does, how he knows), but maybe he was there for Parent Teacher Night? :) That'd probably make most people afraid of Spike...

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.