I was playing "Chaos Bleeds" tonight, and got to the last level.  Cassandra Rayne says this to Buffy, who is accompanied by Faith, a soulless Spike (I think), Xander, and Willow:  "Only a Champion can wield the sword.  There aren't any here, but a Slayer will do."

WTF?

I don't know the extent of Joss's involvement on the video game project, but he was definitely majorly involved in its storyline.

So...what's the definition of a champion in the Buffy/Angel-verse anyway?  Spike and Angel aside, who qualifies as a champion?  And now that I think of it, Higher Beings aren't champions per se, so does that exclude Cordelia as well?

Well, from what's on screen, perhaps you're a champion only if you're a man that has pledged yourself to the cause of a woman in need - Angel standing up for the pregnant woman and her daughter, Spike wearing the amulet for Buffy...

Or the game is just whack. :P

I think Cordy might have been called a champion at some point on AtS, but I honestly can't remember for sure. Been too long since i watched the entire series.

CM

would love to see what other players of Chaos Bleeds" think - 

I choose to take it as ironic contrast - since "Only a Champion" should be able to yield the sword - The Slayer, being a woman, is also perfectly able to do the same.  If "The Champion" is the male symbol, the Slayer is the female counter part. warrior - equals.  When was the game created? 


link page from ask.com for some Buffy fun stuff -

http://www.ask.com/web?qsrc=178&o=0&l=dir&dm=&q=buffy%20games%20to%20play%20online

Oh no--the initial bearer of the sword was a woman (an ancestor of Ethan Rayne, which is terribly ironic) who worked for the Powers.  So it wasn't a man v. woman thing guys...I'm not sure what to say about that.  The game itself is fun though :P

Thanks for the link, nmcil.

I don't recall the Slayer ever being referred to as a champion on the show. In fact, I think "champion" is solely an AtS concept (along with the PTB, which are also Angel-centric). So maybe a Slayer and a champion are two different things.

According to the Buffyverse Dialogue Database, Cordelia was never called a champion (except as defending champion of the "Bitch of the Year" award... not quite the same thing). Maybe it's strictly a "vampire with a soul" designation - which Eve seems to suggest in "Destiny" when she uses them interchangeably in talking about the prophecy. If we believe her definition (which it's not clear we should, since we don't know how much was true and how much they made up to screw with Angel), then a champion must a.) be a vampire with a soul, and b.) have saved the world. And also c.) be corporeal, but that probably goes without saying.

That all makes sense, E.  Except, maybe it's immortal and not vampire specifically--that is, if we include the game as well.  But you're right--champion as a concept is not introduced until Angel (though it is mentioned on Buffy).  And it is odd that no one but Spike or Angel could bear the amulet, when there was Buffy and Faith around.  So...well, that's just interesting :P

Yeah, considering that Angel only said "being with a soul, that's stronger than human", well, Spike asks for it because he knows she has it and Angel meant to wear it. If Buffy had come back alone without Spike watching at the temple, there's a reasonable chance it might have ended up with Faith. Be an interesting idea for fic. It's already been used on Buffy, but I don't think it has for Faith.

CM

If Buffy had come back alone without Spike watching at the temple, there's a reasonable chance it might have ended up with Faith.
Do you think that would have been because Buffy thought it was volatile?  Did she only give it to Spike because he asked for it? Hmm...

*ponders*

No way! She gave it to him as a token of trust, to show that he was her champion. :)

BtVS has a video game?  Really??

Yeah--at least two (that I know of).  One for PS2 and one for XBOX, I think.

It was done as a token of trust, though, because of what he witnessed and him bringing it up. Knowing Buffy, she probably would have kept it in her pocket the whole time and planned to wear it herself. Probably wouldn't have mentioned Angel came by at all, if someone hadn't seen. She didn't have Giles research it when she gave it to Spike, so I doubt she would have taken the time if she planned to use it on herself, either.

CM

Knowing Buffy, she probably would have kept it in her pocket the whole time and planned to wear it herself. Probably wouldn't have mentioned Angel came by at all, if someone hadn't seen.

I agree Caro.  I don't buy the "he's her champion" deal.  Angel popping up, she probably wouldn't have said a word about it.

I haven't played the game, but it does seem that the concept of a champion was not really explored until AtS. It seems that they had to give Angel the golden boy some kind of purpose in the world. We are given very definite definitions of other things, such as the Slayer, but the Buffyverse mythology doesn't ever give or imply the meaning of a champion. Characters are just referred to as being champions, and we're expected to draw our own conclusions from the characters' traits and actions. So, I do have my own ideas based on the vague references that they give us.

I don't think there is any distinction between male and female warriors. The entire concept of the Buffyverse started from the idea that the seemingly harmless cute blonde girl who always bit the dust (no pun, I swear) in horror movies--usually because she ran from the serial killer in stylish, yet affordable pumps--was not only not harmless, but capable of kicking anybody's ass. So, I don't think Joss or anybody involved in creating the two series would base champion status on penis or vagina.

I think the concept of a champion was introduced to give Angel some sort of purpose, a reason that he was chosen by the Powers that Screw with You to fight against evil. He was a vampire with a soul, so I suppose it makes sense: he had great physical strength to fight the baddies, a conscience to make him want to do good, and 150 years of unspeakable evil for which to atone. Angel chose to be a champion; he could have easily walked away at any time. He had no obligation, no sacred duty.

On the other hand, Buffy didn't choose to be a called as a Slayer. She was, literally, the Chosen One, given special powers and abilities to fight evil by ancient mystical force. However, Buffy didn't have to choose to perform her duties as the Slayer. She could have walked away at anytime, but she choose to fulfill her sacred duty.

Faith, however, did not. She was a champion in the sense that she was chosen to protect world from the forces of darkness. But Faith didn't choose to fulfill her sacred duty. Instead, Faith chose to work against good instead of against evil. She was a champion in name, but not in her actions.

Spike wasn't a champion in name. He wasn't selected by the PTB, or an ancient mystical force, or by anybody or anything to fulfill any kind of service to mankind. Nobody gave him visions, nobody gave him a soul--he earned it--nobody sent him a spirit guide. But Spike became a champion nonetheless. His motivation wasn't to atone for unspeakable evil. He didn't do it because he had a sacred duty. He did it for love, not of mankind, but of a woman, another champion who named him as her own champion. So, I suppose, in a sense, he was chosen by Buffy to be a champion's champion.

Angel, Buffy, Faith, and Spike were all champions in one way or another, but Faith is the only one who chose not to be one in her actions. Yes, she did come to help fight the First Evil, but that made her more of a warrior than a champion. Now, I'm not saying that other people in the Buffyverse aren't champions. But the concept of a champion seems to be more of a Champion, captital "C," than champion, little "c." There are many characters who are heroes at one point or another, but the Champions seem to be those who are selected for whatever reason to fight against evil and actually choose to do so.

Lost Boy there are two games for x-box:  Buffy the vampire Slayer and then Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Chaos bleeds.  Both are fun you can find them at EBgames.com or gamestop.com

Angel chose to be a champion; he could have easily walked away at any time. He had no obligation, no sacred duty.

Needed some screencaps of The Oracles and had a chance to watch IWRY again - The Oracles, female, clearly described Angel/Angelus as being worthy and not a lower being by his placing his Duty and Journey of Redemption above his personal desire and Joy in Life.  Angel being such a complex character, has many levels for his actions in IWRY and with Buffy,  but in this episode he definitely takes on his role of Champion and his Duty over Love.  His choice to not stay a human has many facets, but I do think that he believed in his mission to try and help others and atonement.


Spike wasn't a champion in name. He wasn't selected by the PTB, or an ancient mystical force, or by anybody or anything to fulfill any kind of service to mankind.

As for being a Champion, I agree,  it is not particularly a gender thing, I think it is primarily a "choice for sacrifice" - and I think it is even more significant that Spike does ask about the amulet - IMO, it is symbolic of his role as a champion based on sacrifice, founded on love.  Another very interesting symbolic layer to Spike and his last role at the caves is the religious connection with 'atonement" which in Christian faith is the reconciliation between God and human beings brought about by the death of Jesus Christ.  Spike, in his role as Chapmpion is both consumed and transcendent by his light of his soul and the power of the sun and, IMO, also joined with his consort/counterpart Buffy in their cave experience.  While, the Buffyverse does not espoused any specific  religious point of view, I do think a great deal of religious ideas are presented in the series.