BSV Forum - General - The Bloodshedpub
Slash PairingsJul 29 2008 08:56 pm #1Scarlet Ibis
I originally posted this in my LJ, but at the request of one of my LJ buds, I was asked to post here.
This is a thread specifically about slash pairings--well, mostly male slash but if someone wants to talk about the women of the Buffy/Angel verses, knock yourselves out.
Spander.
The thing of it is...I don't buy it. It would have to be the most bizarre set of circumstances in order for that to eve be considered. Like the end of the world, and it's just the two of them, and even then, I'm not sure I'd buy it.
I can see Xander being gay. I can see him trying to be gay with Spike, or maybe Riley (though I don't think Riley would ever be gay, mostly), and not succeeding, but getting someone like Larry or Andrew. Actually, Xander and Andrew would be interesting...At any rate, he'd totally wouldn't be the bottom in that pairing. And so I won't be accused of being a hypocrit, I actually read a pretty lengthy Spander all the way through the other day. The story itself was good, but the Spanderness aspect of it was totally forced, and didn't feel right or natural at all.
Spangel.
Spike, on the other hand, and I truly believe this, could only be gay with Angel/Angelus. And not in some weirdo Master/slave kind of sense that some people try to portray. I don't know, but if either of them was gay, it could only be with the other. That's the only way it makes sense (to me).
Angel/Wesley (Wangel?)
I could see Wesley being gay, but only for Angel. Again, I could not suspend my belief seeing him with any other male, but at the same time, I don't think Angel would have him (in that way). However, I did read an awesome Spawn (that included "the end of the world" scenario), and it had a Wesley/Xander pairing, and I totally bought that. I suppose it was the way it was presented...
Giles
Let's see....I don't see Giles being gay ever. I would buy him seducing Buffy before I ever bought that (and I would never buy him seducing Buffy, btw). However, I could see Ripper telling Ethan to "suck it, you little twat," and then laughing as he does it. Pure sport, and not being a gay thing. Although I think Ethan could be.
Other characters
Oz-- nah, I don't think so. He's pretty open minded, but strictly a ladies man.
Gunn-- it took him awhile to become open minded. Even so, all hetero there.
Lorne-- Very flamboyant. But we never see him with anybody. I'd definitely say gay though--really fits into the whole him being the black sheep from his family and willingly going into exile.
I know I'm forgetting some people...Either way, have at it
This is a thread specifically about slash pairings--well, mostly male slash but if someone wants to talk about the women of the Buffy/Angel verses, knock yourselves out.
Spander.
The thing of it is...I don't buy it. It would have to be the most bizarre set of circumstances in order for that to eve be considered. Like the end of the world, and it's just the two of them, and even then, I'm not sure I'd buy it.
I can see Xander being gay. I can see him trying to be gay with Spike, or maybe Riley (though I don't think Riley would ever be gay, mostly), and not succeeding, but getting someone like Larry or Andrew. Actually, Xander and Andrew would be interesting...At any rate, he'd totally wouldn't be the bottom in that pairing. And so I won't be accused of being a hypocrit, I actually read a pretty lengthy Spander all the way through the other day. The story itself was good, but the Spanderness aspect of it was totally forced, and didn't feel right or natural at all.
Spangel.
Spike, on the other hand, and I truly believe this, could only be gay with Angel/Angelus. And not in some weirdo Master/slave kind of sense that some people try to portray. I don't know, but if either of them was gay, it could only be with the other. That's the only way it makes sense (to me).
Angel/Wesley (Wangel?)
I could see Wesley being gay, but only for Angel. Again, I could not suspend my belief seeing him with any other male, but at the same time, I don't think Angel would have him (in that way). However, I did read an awesome Spawn (that included "the end of the world" scenario), and it had a Wesley/Xander pairing, and I totally bought that. I suppose it was the way it was presented...
Giles
Let's see....I don't see Giles being gay ever. I would buy him seducing Buffy before I ever bought that (and I would never buy him seducing Buffy, btw). However, I could see Ripper telling Ethan to "suck it, you little twat," and then laughing as he does it. Pure sport, and not being a gay thing. Although I think Ethan could be.
Other characters
Oz-- nah, I don't think so. He's pretty open minded, but strictly a ladies man.
Gunn-- it took him awhile to become open minded. Even so, all hetero there.
Lorne-- Very flamboyant. But we never see him with anybody. I'd definitely say gay though--really fits into the whole him being the black sheep from his family and willingly going into exile.
I know I'm forgetting some people...Either way, have at it
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Jul 29 2008 09:33 pm #2TammyDevil666
I don't really read much slash, but for some reason the only person I can see Spike with is Xander, being a Spander shipper and all. I've written a couple fictions of them together. I know Angel/Angelus makes the most sense, but I really don't care for the two of them together. I couldn't really say why. As for everyone else, I haven't given much thought to it, but Lorne is the one that's gay in like every fiction I've read with him.
When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you, and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy.
Totally with you there on the Spander, they are just yucky together unless it is a friendship fic. I also agree about Ripper making Ethan his bee-atch, maybe that is why Ethan is so mad at Giles.
One of the things about the comics that has me kinda pissed is Buffy having sex with a female, I just don't buy THAT. I can see Faith doing that, but I just don't see Buffy being with another woman, I don't know, it just seemed very OOC for Buffy.
One of the things about the comics that has me kinda pissed is Buffy having sex with a female, I just don't buy THAT. I can see Faith doing that, but I just don't see Buffy being with another woman, I don't know, it just seemed very OOC for Buffy.
The most wasted of all days is one without laughter.--- e e cummings
Come to challengespuffy post Spuffy fic challenges or find something to write about
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Jul 29 2008 09:37 pm #4TammyDevil666
I agree about the comics, that whole thing makes no sense to me. If Buffy had to hook up with any other female, Faith is the only one I could really see that happening with. I don't see it being some random Slayer, but I'm not reading the comics and like to just pretend they don't exist. To me it ended with "Chosen" and that's that.
When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you, and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy.
Jul 29 2008 09:45 pm #5Scarlet Ibis
I agree about Buffy. If she ever got experimental, it would be with Faith. Hell, maybe even Willow. Okay, not really, but still it makes more sense than some slayer. Especially to experiment with one who's "in love" with her. It doesn't make Buffy look good at all..It's true to her character, but not, because she's not gay. Bi-curious with Faith, maybe, but that is it.
I'm actually really disappointed in the Buffy comics...
I'm actually really disappointed in the Buffy comics...
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Jul 29 2008 11:28 pm #6slaymesoftly
Moderator
I've read too many really well-written Spander fics not to be able to see it. I've even written a couple myself. (That's all the fault of SpikesKat - blame her).
Spike/Angel/Angelus I can see because I can see Angelus using it to dominate or discipline Spike when he was young. Spike/Angel is a little more difficult, but I've read several that make it work for me.
Giles/Ethan - totally. (I think we can blame that on my beta, lol)
A really good writer can make just about anything work, I think; although I would usually avoid any pairings that squick me unless I had no choice but to read them. For instance - I detest Spawn 99% of the time; and yet, some of the most affecting things I've read over the years have been Spawn fics. (all two of them.lol) No one has ever been able to make Giles/Buffy work for me - but then I so hated the one I did read, that I've never read another one.
Spike/Angel/Angelus I can see because I can see Angelus using it to dominate or discipline Spike when he was young. Spike/Angel is a little more difficult, but I've read several that make it work for me.
Giles/Ethan - totally. (I think we can blame that on my beta, lol)
A really good writer can make just about anything work, I think; although I would usually avoid any pairings that squick me unless I had no choice but to read them. For instance - I detest Spawn 99% of the time; and yet, some of the most affecting things I've read over the years have been Spawn fics. (all two of them.lol) No one has ever been able to make Giles/Buffy work for me - but then I so hated the one I did read, that I've never read another one.
I am not a minion of Evil...
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Jul 29 2008 11:55 pm #7TammyDevil666
I have written Spawn before, but still detest that pairing...lol! I used to be my friend's beta, so I was forced to read Buffy/Giles once, never again. To be honest, mostly everything that's not Spuffy or Spander makes me cringe, except for the pairings we saw on the shows, most of the time.
When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you, and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy.
I have just about given up on trying to post at the forum - why does this site go off into online never never land so much of the time. My reply all just went bye-bye when I "submit" the damn thing. It has gotten so bad that I always try to remember to do the "copy" before I try to post - too bad for me, I forgot this time. Does anyone else have this problem with posting and just reading?
The only characters from my perspective that would likely be in a Buffyverse slash relationship are:
Angel-Angelus, Spike, Andrew, Faith, Any, Willow, Lorne with a potential of Wesley and Ripper-Ethan.
Buffy-Satsu - IMO and thus far, reads like a cleaned-up, confined and wrapped in pretty pink ribbon Sex Spike Usage. It all seems to have ended up and treated like sexual pleasure for both women. Interesting that it is Satsu that takes on the mature person role in their last encounter and Buffy being a childish and naive - she tells Satsu that "I can make it easier on you, I promise." How the hell is that suppose to work for Satsu if they see each other after their sexual experience? Well, as Satsu said: "nah, I'm tough and for what it's worth...it was one of the best nights of my life." and they have a repeat of said wondrous night and some very ominous last thoughts from Willow Image, Buffy-Satsu, and Xander.
I can also see a Buffy - Faith, with sex initiated by faith but the relationship would not be very long. Buffy and Tara also seems like a probable relationship, but one that is based on Buffy's need to have a loving and gentle relationship as a contrast to all the violence and death of her Slayer life. However, Buffy is such a harsh character and so prone to anger, that both women would have to change in fundamental parts of their characters or would be diminished in some way. Often we have Buffy being changed for the better by Tara - but what happens to a gentle and beautiful woman like Tara when she opens herself to the potential of anger and violence of a Buffy?
The only characters from my perspective that would likely be in a Buffyverse slash relationship are:
Angel-Angelus, Spike, Andrew, Faith, Any, Willow, Lorne with a potential of Wesley and Ripper-Ethan.
Buffy-Satsu - IMO and thus far, reads like a cleaned-up, confined and wrapped in pretty pink ribbon Sex Spike Usage. It all seems to have ended up and treated like sexual pleasure for both women. Interesting that it is Satsu that takes on the mature person role in their last encounter and Buffy being a childish and naive - she tells Satsu that "I can make it easier on you, I promise." How the hell is that suppose to work for Satsu if they see each other after their sexual experience? Well, as Satsu said: "nah, I'm tough and for what it's worth...it was one of the best nights of my life." and they have a repeat of said wondrous night and some very ominous last thoughts from Willow Image, Buffy-Satsu, and Xander.
I can also see a Buffy - Faith, with sex initiated by faith but the relationship would not be very long. Buffy and Tara also seems like a probable relationship, but one that is based on Buffy's need to have a loving and gentle relationship as a contrast to all the violence and death of her Slayer life. However, Buffy is such a harsh character and so prone to anger, that both women would have to change in fundamental parts of their characters or would be diminished in some way. Often we have Buffy being changed for the better by Tara - but what happens to a gentle and beautiful woman like Tara when she opens herself to the potential of anger and violence of a Buffy?
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Jul 30 2008 12:45 am #9Guest
Guest
I can see Spangel, and actually think of that pairing as mostly canon. Spander, I can't see.
The only woman I can ever see Buffy in a relationship with would be Faith, and that would be like Spangel.
The only woman I can ever see Buffy in a relationship with would be Faith, and that would be like Spangel.
I think the slash pairing that squicks me most, even over Spander, is Spilliam. That is almost worse than incest.
The most wasted of all days is one without laughter.--- e e cummings
Come to challengespuffy post Spuffy fic challenges or find something to write about
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Jul 30 2008 02:31 am #11Scarlet Ibis
Spilliam? *shudders*
I read one Biles once, but only cause it was one of my fave authors, and she could probably write anything, and I'd read it...Anyway, the way she did it, I totally bought it as believable, and it didn't seem contrived at all.
nmcil, I have the same problem, and I always copy before posting.
As for Buffy, well, she should just be alone for a really long while. She's right--she isn't done baking, and is far from being mature enough to be in any kind of relationship. She's still, well, using her lover.
Also, I don't think Spangel requires Spike to be forced into submission. Besides, Angelus would much rather prefer some kind of trickery when it came to stuff like that (the first time around, I imagine). And, he wasn't consistently condescending to Spike. Only when he came back in season two, and that was cause he was kind of insane...
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Jul 30 2008 03:45 am #12Spikez_tart
I did read an awesome Spawn - Okay you said the Spawn word and that is just Wrong! I hate Spawn, hate the thought of Spawn,Spawn squicks me to the core. If Dawn were 98, Spawn would still be wrong wrong wrong. Sorry had to vent.
Spike/Giles - I can see this and there's a hint in Hush where we see Giles and Spike duffing around Giles apartment in a very companionable way. Also, their constant sniping at each other has a sort of sexual tone. Not to mention sharing a bowl of weetabix.
Spike/Angel - that's canon and seems pretty easy to see. Spike's comment that they were only intimate once is not said in a manner that indicates it was forced. The real objection might be that Angel doesn't actually like Spike and he thinks Spike is a moron.
Spike/Xander - I could see it from Xander's side and maybe from Spike's if he was into abusing Xander.
Buffy/Faith - hinted in canon when they do that hot dance together and when they come up to the gang's table in the Bronze and Buffy says they're just good friends. Still, I don't see it. I think Joss was just jerking us around.
Biles - Ugh - see Spawn above
Buffy/new girl in comics - okay this also squicks me because hey - didn't Buffy learn from her affair with Spike that you don't use people who love you to experiment or for your own physical pleasure with no intention of allowing yourself to feel anything for that person? Hate the whole story line. Reading it anyway.
Buffy/Willow - no way. Its just icky. Although I could see Willow carrying a secret torch for Buffy.
Buffy'Anya - maybe - they'd be kind of quirky together.
Spike/Giles - I can see this and there's a hint in Hush where we see Giles and Spike duffing around Giles apartment in a very companionable way. Also, their constant sniping at each other has a sort of sexual tone. Not to mention sharing a bowl of weetabix.
Spike/Angel - that's canon and seems pretty easy to see. Spike's comment that they were only intimate once is not said in a manner that indicates it was forced. The real objection might be that Angel doesn't actually like Spike and he thinks Spike is a moron.
Spike/Xander - I could see it from Xander's side and maybe from Spike's if he was into abusing Xander.
Buffy/Faith - hinted in canon when they do that hot dance together and when they come up to the gang's table in the Bronze and Buffy says they're just good friends. Still, I don't see it. I think Joss was just jerking us around.
Biles - Ugh - see Spawn above
Buffy/new girl in comics - okay this also squicks me because hey - didn't Buffy learn from her affair with Spike that you don't use people who love you to experiment or for your own physical pleasure with no intention of allowing yourself to feel anything for that person? Hate the whole story line. Reading it anyway.
Buffy/Willow - no way. Its just icky. Although I could see Willow carrying a secret torch for Buffy.
Buffy'Anya - maybe - they'd be kind of quirky together.
If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
I know I already weighed in on your LJ, Scarlet, but I haven't posted here in a while.
Spander is a big no for me. You really have to push both of their characters to make that one work. And quite frankly it squicks me out more than Spawn, and Spawn is spew worthy IMHO.
It was very rare that either of them were good to the other on the show. And, I think Xander is unattractive, especially when he became such a jerk, and he let himself go, physically. Unless he was flat out using and abusing another character, Spike seemed to prefer strong woman that he could respect. I don't see him ever seeing Xander as both strong and attractive.
I can see Spangel. Spike with Angelus or Angel. They are both vampires from the same family. They have a passionate history with each other. There is a fine line between love and hate.
I can see Giles with Ethan. Perhaps in their early days. I always thought Ethan was upset at Giles for not returning the lusty feelings, when I watched them together in canon.
And Buffy, I could see her experimenting with Faith. Heck, I'm a straight as an arrow female who you couldn't pay to read female slash stories, but even I think Eliza is one hot chick.
With that said, I will read any pairing if I like the author's writing style.
Spander is a big no for me. You really have to push both of their characters to make that one work. And quite frankly it squicks me out more than Spawn, and Spawn is spew worthy IMHO.
It was very rare that either of them were good to the other on the show. And, I think Xander is unattractive, especially when he became such a jerk, and he let himself go, physically. Unless he was flat out using and abusing another character, Spike seemed to prefer strong woman that he could respect. I don't see him ever seeing Xander as both strong and attractive.
I can see Spangel. Spike with Angelus or Angel. They are both vampires from the same family. They have a passionate history with each other. There is a fine line between love and hate.
I can see Giles with Ethan. Perhaps in their early days. I always thought Ethan was upset at Giles for not returning the lusty feelings, when I watched them together in canon.
And Buffy, I could see her experimenting with Faith. Heck, I'm a straight as an arrow female who you couldn't pay to read female slash stories, but even I think Eliza is one hot chick.
With that said, I will read any pairing if I like the author's writing style.
Jul 30 2008 03:57 am #14slaymesoftly
Moderator
Oh , how could I forget Spike/Giles? I've read some good ones.
Spilliam just is icky and stupid. Haven't even tried to read any of them. God help me if I end up judging one some day!
I have written a drabble that hints at Spawn after Buffy's death. But it's set many years in the future when Buffy has died after years with Spike. Dawn just lets him know that she never got over her crush and it ends there. That's about as close as I'm going to come to it, I'm pretty sure.
I like Xander- Spike friendship, so I have no problem expanding that into another kind of relationship that isn't at all abusive on either part.
Haven't given Buffy slash any thought, but if she did it would have to be Faith. I've even seen a couple of good stories in which they're together at some point in the future. The whole Satsu thing was just...huh? Wha?
I don't think Spangel requires submission - I see it as a natural extension of their former relationship before the got their souls and their status as the only two souled vampires. I've read some very convincing Spangels and also some Spangelus. Those are usually more violent, on account of Angelus was, you know, pretty nasty.
nmcil - I haven't had any trouble with the verse for the past couple of days *knocks on wood*. I thought Dia must have paid a secret visit and ironed out the problems. Sorry to hear that you're still having trouble.
Spilliam just is icky and stupid. Haven't even tried to read any of them. God help me if I end up judging one some day!
I have written a drabble that hints at Spawn after Buffy's death. But it's set many years in the future when Buffy has died after years with Spike. Dawn just lets him know that she never got over her crush and it ends there. That's about as close as I'm going to come to it, I'm pretty sure.
I like Xander- Spike friendship, so I have no problem expanding that into another kind of relationship that isn't at all abusive on either part.
Haven't given Buffy slash any thought, but if she did it would have to be Faith. I've even seen a couple of good stories in which they're together at some point in the future. The whole Satsu thing was just...huh? Wha?
I don't think Spangel requires submission - I see it as a natural extension of their former relationship before the got their souls and their status as the only two souled vampires. I've read some very convincing Spangels and also some Spangelus. Those are usually more violent, on account of Angelus was, you know, pretty nasty.
nmcil - I haven't had any trouble with the verse for the past couple of days *knocks on wood*. I thought Dia must have paid a secret visit and ironed out the problems. Sorry to hear that you're still having trouble.
I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
I am upper management.
Jul 30 2008 04:13 am #15Immortal Beloved
nmcil, I have the same problem, and I always copy before posting.
Me, too. I copy before posting, or I type up my post in Word first and then paste it here.
Now, on to the slashiness:
I don't really read slash, mostly because it ain't Spuffy. When I say I'm a died-in-the-wool Spuffy shipper, I mean my wool isn't even dyed; the natural color is Spuffy. The only reason I ever got into reading fan fiction (besides because books cost money) is because of Spuffy. I like reading other pairings, be they canon or not, in a larger Spuffy work of fiction; but my primary reason for reading anything is for the Spuffy. I even have my own motto: Vive le Spuffy! ("Long live Spuffy" for everyone who did as well in French class as Buffy did).
Outside of it not being Spuffy, the pairing--slash or not--that I find the least fathomable of all is Spander. I just don't see it ever happening. Frankly, I'd see Fred with Dawn :evilplotbunny: before I'd see Spike with Xander; and Dawn and Fred haven't ever even met! I've read some off-the-wall pairings--Lorne and Anya, Gavin and Buffybot--that made perfect sense in whatever story they popped up, but it would take a special set of circumstances to suspend my disbelief for Spander. There are some crafty little writers in the fandom, but I don't think that even the most inventive mind could convince me that Spander would be plausible. Yes, I could see Xander and Spike perhaps developing a grudging friendship or a sense of comraderie; but no amount of skillful plotting could ever convince me that those two would ever do the horizontal or vertical hula. Maybe if I put aside my disbelief and read, say, a one shot Spander PWP, where there is no explanation for the sex...Nope, I still don't think I'd buy it
I'm not saying that I don't think Xander could be with another man, just not Spike. As for Spike with another man, eh, Spike just seems waaaaaaay too into women to me. I could see Spike with just about any woman, maybe even the social worker from "Gone" 
I could also see Angelus and Spike in a non-consensual situation.
I don't see Buffy with another woman, either. Maybe with Faith at Faith's behest. That fling with Satsu in the Season 8 comics. Personally, I was into the comics right up until Buffy and Satsu got naked. My reaction was, to quote Xander, "How? What? How?" My brow furrowed, and I shook my head as I watched Joss metaphorically rev up his SeaDoo and jump the shark Even after the half-assed attempt at an explanation (she was lonely, blah, blah, blah), I still kind of roll my eyes.
Disclaimer: I am, in no way, anti-gay or homophobic. So, in no way, am I inviting any accusations of homophobia. I am stating my opinion, but I am, in no way, discounting the opinions, writings, or shippership of any Spander or Batsu believers.
Me, too. I copy before posting, or I type up my post in Word first and then paste it here.
Now, on to the slashiness:
I don't really read slash, mostly because it ain't Spuffy. When I say I'm a died-in-the-wool Spuffy shipper, I mean my wool isn't even dyed; the natural color is Spuffy. The only reason I ever got into reading fan fiction (besides because books cost money) is because of Spuffy. I like reading other pairings, be they canon or not, in a larger Spuffy work of fiction; but my primary reason for reading anything is for the Spuffy. I even have my own motto: Vive le Spuffy! ("Long live Spuffy" for everyone who did as well in French class as Buffy did).
Outside of it not being Spuffy, the pairing--slash or not--that I find the least fathomable of all is Spander. I just don't see it ever happening. Frankly, I'd see Fred with Dawn :evilplotbunny: before I'd see Spike with Xander; and Dawn and Fred haven't ever even met! I've read some off-the-wall pairings--Lorne and Anya, Gavin and Buffybot--that made perfect sense in whatever story they popped up, but it would take a special set of circumstances to suspend my disbelief for Spander. There are some crafty little writers in the fandom, but I don't think that even the most inventive mind could convince me that Spander would be plausible. Yes, I could see Xander and Spike perhaps developing a grudging friendship or a sense of comraderie; but no amount of skillful plotting could ever convince me that those two would ever do the horizontal or vertical hula. Maybe if I put aside my disbelief and read, say, a one shot Spander PWP, where there is no explanation for the sex...Nope, I still don't think I'd buy it
I'm not saying that I don't think Xander could be with another man, just not Spike. As for Spike with another man, eh, Spike just seems waaaaaaay too into women to me. I could see Spike with just about any woman, maybe even the social worker from "Gone" I could also see Angelus and Spike in a non-consensual situation.I don't see Buffy with another woman, either. Maybe with Faith at Faith's behest. That fling with Satsu in the Season 8 comics. Personally, I was into the comics right up until Buffy and Satsu got naked. My reaction was, to quote Xander, "How? What? How?" My brow furrowed, and I shook my head as I watched Joss metaphorically rev up his SeaDoo and jump the shark
Even after the half-assed attempt at an explanation (she was lonely, blah, blah, blah), I still kind of roll my eyes.Disclaimer: I am, in no way, anti-gay or homophobic. So, in no way, am I inviting any accusations of homophobia. I am stating my opinion, but I am, in no way, discounting the opinions, writings, or shippership of any Spander or Batsu believers.
Give me Spuffy, or give me death.
Jul 30 2008 04:16 am #16Scarlet Ibis
Eliza? Yeah, she looks...naughty. Some people just do .
And Spiles? Hmm...no, I don't see it. They have too much of a father/son relationship. However, in one of their buddy-buddy moments, the most I could see was the two of them masturbating together (and it starts off as an accident--Spike walking in on Giles who was having quality time with himself, watching some porn, maybe), and Giles is all flustered and embarassed about it afterward and Spike just laughs it off. Um...yeah
ETA: IB, you're totally right--Spike could finesse the pants off any woman, gay or straight I think. He's quite the charmer and panty wetter.
.And Spiles? Hmm...no, I don't see it. They have too much of a father/son relationship. However, in one of their buddy-buddy moments, the most I could see was the two of them masturbating together (and it starts off as an accident--Spike walking in on Giles who was having quality time with himself, watching some porn, maybe), and Giles is all flustered and embarassed about it afterward and Spike just laughs it off. Um...yeah
ETA: IB, you're totally right--Spike could finesse the pants off any woman, gay or straight I think. He's quite the charmer and panty wetter.
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Jul 30 2008 04:27 am #17Immortal Beloved
Spike could finesse the pants off any woman, gay or straight I think.
:nod: I think he'd enjoy getting into them no matter which woman was wearing said pants. He just strikes me as loving femininity and women and getting all puffed up at being able to talk them out of their knickers. Maybe it comes from being completely inept with wooing when he was human.
:nod: I think he'd enjoy getting into them no matter which woman was wearing said pants. He just strikes me as loving femininity and women and getting all puffed up at being able to talk them out of their knickers. Maybe it comes from being completely inept with wooing when he was human.
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Jul 30 2008 04:29 am #18Scarlet Ibis
Maybe it comes from being completely inept with wooing when he was human.
Totally. He's like that kid that went through that god awful awkward phase and turned into this sexy, um...I don't want to say swan, but you get my drift
Totally. He's like that kid that went through that god awful awkward phase and turned into this sexy, um...I don't want to say swan, but you get my drift
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Jul 30 2008 05:20 am #19goldenusagi
Hmm, I have read some slash, but not that much, mostly because it just doesn't appeal to me. If a character isn't gay on the show, I just can't see them as gay in fanfic. Even if the story is good, I'm still sort of thinking, "That wouldn't happen." The idea behind Spander is sort of hot to me, but I still don't see it happening. And I was actually sort of "noooo!" when Spike made the comment about being intimate with Angelus 'that one time.' (I was probably the only one, LOL.) Whether it was forced or just experimenting, it clearly didn't work, because they only did it the once, so I just can't see Spike and Angel(us) seriously together.
And I hated the Satsu thing in the comics. It just seemed OOC, for two reasons. One, because I thought Buffy had grown in season 7, after she used Spike for sex. Two, because she's never shown any real interest in girls. Joss said about the Buffy/Satsu pairing: "They have a lot of time on their hands...What? None of you went to college?" When I read that, I thought, 'Buffy already went to college.' She had her experiment time already, and didn't use it, LOL. Willow was the one that found new things in college, and even she didn't say, "Gee, I think I'll hook up with a girl." Her relationship with Tara was natural and progressed from their friendship. And whatever else Joss was trying to do with Satsu, that quote really rubbed me the wrong way for some reason. Like people (girls) just 'decide' to get it on with other girls for the novelty of it. I don't care how much sex you're not having, if you're straight, you don't just switch teams for some quick fun. That's a whole other deal than thinking you lean that way and wanting to explore it.
I hope that made sense.
And I hated the Satsu thing in the comics. It just seemed OOC, for two reasons. One, because I thought Buffy had grown in season 7, after she used Spike for sex. Two, because she's never shown any real interest in girls. Joss said about the Buffy/Satsu pairing: "They have a lot of time on their hands...What? None of you went to college?" When I read that, I thought, 'Buffy already went to college.' She had her experiment time already, and didn't use it, LOL. Willow was the one that found new things in college, and even she didn't say, "Gee, I think I'll hook up with a girl." Her relationship with Tara was natural and progressed from their friendship. And whatever else Joss was trying to do with Satsu, that quote really rubbed me the wrong way for some reason. Like people (girls) just 'decide' to get it on with other girls for the novelty of it. I don't care how much sex you're not having, if you're straight, you don't just switch teams for some quick fun. That's a whole other deal than thinking you lean that way and wanting to explore it.
I hope that made sense.
The problem that I have with Buffy and Satsu is that it seems to make all the extreme trauma of Buffy-Spike Sexual Plot of little value or consequence. Season Six abusive sexual relationships was the primary theme for the two characters that end up being the ultimate Heroes – it was such a vital "life is Hell" and psychological rite of passage for Buffy that seems to become lost in Comic Season. I suspect that very hard times are coming ahead.
Some people, who really are open and very much into the sexual experience, I think they would engage in slash relationship, even if they were not bisexual all the time. Faith and Spike both come appear as very sexual characters that would be open to any relationship – either the strictly sexual pleasure or a long-term relationship that would bring love and dignity into their lives.
The relationship that I just can’t bring myself to accept is Spike-Dawn – it just feels so wrong to me – but I love the Spike-Dawn deep and wonderful friendship. Tara and Dawn, in my Buffyverse view make the perfect female friends for Spike – and I like Giles & Wesley as his great male friendships.
Angel-Wesley, is another relationship that I would like to read -
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Spander does work for me. Especially in the fourth season. Spike and Xander are outsiders, looked down upon, and complete losers. Spike to amuse himself flirts with Xander, not because he's all in love with him and all that stuff, but because he was bored. Xander freaks, but does think Spike is hot (Now Xander thinking Spike is hot is canon). Spike is amused. He takes it as a challange. Besides, he gets to have sex. Spike continues torturing Xander, who tries his hardest to escape. Eventually, Xander caves and the next morning, Xander is paranoied. Scared his friends would find out. Spike puts hints here and there for Xander's friends to torment Xander even more. Poor Xander breaks up with Anya because, well, he's gay. Anya doesn't take this very well and goes straight to Buffy and Willow and tells them in hope they'll be mad at Xander, too. Buffy and Willow are shocked but not freaked. They're supportive. In fact, they're too supportive that they wanna find Xander a boyfriend. Xander finds a boyfriend on his own, though. Word gets to Spike.
And suddenly, it isn't fun anymore. In fact, Spike is a little pissed. Why the hell is he pissed? It's not like he cares who's the sod bloody Harris is shagging now.........................
Man, I think I wanna write this fic. It's so funny.
As for Buffy-Satsu:
I don't see it as OCC. Actually, I see Faith and Buffy happening as OCC. From issue One and Buffy declares she's missing sex. She has dreams about having sex with Xander for God's sake. Girl is so desperate. She finds this sweet girl she respects so much, who likes Buffy. Buffy had made it clear to Satsu that she's not gay and that she'll just see what it's like. Plus, sex. Satsu doesn't mind. I guess she's desperate, too. What happened between Buffy and Satsu wasn't about love. It was just Buffy having fun. And the point that Buffy isn't gay was mentioned to death in that arc, even Willow admits in the end that Buffy isn't gay. Satsu accepts that Buffy isn't gay, and in a way she also took advantage of Buffy because Buffy was lonely and willing. If Satsu didn't wanna have sex with Buffy, Buffy wouldn't force her, but she did and she knew that it's not gonna be a happy ending.
Jul 30 2008 10:37 am #22afgrulerofthepen
My OTP for BtVS is Spuffy, of course. I read few fics where the main pairing isn't Spuffy. But when I do read others, I'll go for any pairing as long as I don't think it's something really gross (Spawn *gags*) or really, really random (Snyder/Kennedy, the randomest pairing I could think of).
I think Spander could happen. I really love seeing them as reluctant allies or friends, but I also saw enough tension between them in the show that I can imagine them together. I just don't think their relationship would be lovey dovey or romantic. I could see them being with each out of loneliness or even desperation. My favorite situation would be if all of the Scoobies were either gone somewhere or dead, and Spike and Xander are the only two left, and they seek comfort with each other. I think I've read one or two Spander fics that were kind of like that, but I can't remember.
Spangel(us) I'm actually a big fan of. I consider it to be canon, and not just because of Spike's line in Power Play. I was actually annoyed that Joss thought he had to defend himself over that line. There was already a fairly large Spangel(us) community before Power Play, so it's not like it was anything new. And I always thought that the Fanged Four had numerous sexual encounters with each other in many different ways throughout their years together. But anyways, I like Spike with Angel or Angelus in any kind of relationship, whether it's abusive/BDSM, romantic, or just for the sex.
Spiles is one I can't really see together. They're too much of a father-son/British buddies relationship to really go anywhere else IMO. I could totally see Spike/Ripper though, mainly because I think they're kinda similar. I like to think that was one of the reasons why Giles hated Spike; he reminded him of his Ripper days. I guess under certain circumstances, maybe like the ones I imagine for Spander, they could work. But it would still be a bit of a stretch.
I'm surprised no one's mentioned this one: Spandrew! Granted, it is pretty silly, but I have seen Spike/Andrew fics out there. I like to think that Spike holds some affection for Andrew since he can see a little bit of William in him, but I don't think that could ever grow into any kind of relationship, romantic or sexual.
I can imagine Spike with almost anyone really, under the right circumstances. To me, Spike has always had a very mercurial personality with an amazing ability to become whatever he has to be. So I think that he would be attracted to any kind of person, whether they're physically/emotionally strong or weak, and he would adapt to whatever that person needed him to be. The way I see it, Spike likes people that can match him in one or many areas, like strength, intelligence, or humor. But he also likes to be needed and depended on, which I think was a big reason for him being with Dru. So I can see Spike being with anyone as long as they appealed to him in some way.
Buffy/Faith I can definitely see. I actually thought it would happen in Bad Girls, and was a little sad when it didn't. Buffy/Willow I don't think could ever happen, but like Spike_tartz said, I can see Willow having a crush on her. And the whole Buffy/Satsu thing was a huge disappointment for me. It felt like Joss was just trying to shock everyone for the sake of being controversial. I stopped reading the comics right after that. My friend mentioned Buffy/Tara, which I don't think I've seen used in any fics, but I don't really see that happening anyways.
I'm also a Giles/Ethan fan. But I like to think they had more of a do-whatever-we-want-cause-we-can kinda relationship. They definitely weren't monogamous, but they were still kinda together. Plus, I think it's really funny if one of the reasons Giles hated whenever Ethan came to Sunnydale, other then him being evil, was because Giles still had feelings for him and he didn't want to give in to Ethan.
Angel/Wesley is one I never thought of actually. I just always thought of them as being friends. And I love the whole Wes/Fred thing, so I never really thought of him with anyone else.
Whoa. Didn't realize how long this post was. Oh well.
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Jul 30 2008 03:44 pm #23slaymesoftly
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I can see Spike with just about anyone (see entry above where she explains it beautifully) I don't necessarily like him with everyone, but I can see it if it's well-written and the fic makes it believable. He has a lot of love to share, and he's a very affectionate, sexual being. If you visit the All About Spike archive, you will find that one of the ways the fics are sorted is by pairing. You can find well-written fics that have Spike with just about everyone on there (even Andrew -although it's only a short pwp). It's quite an experience to read all those different ways of pairing Spike up and to decide for yourself which ones you can believe and which ones not.
There's also quite a difference between pwp, which are written specifically to show two characters having sex, and real pairings which try to present the characters in a believable relationship. If you're into slash porn (or het, for that matter) and you're there for the sex, then you can probably see anybody doing anybody. Boring, IMHO, but very possible. Much tougher to write and to get into as a reader ( if the pairing doesn't work for you), is a story that presents the characters in a believable relationship. Then things like 'how likely is this', 'do these two characters really work together?', 'what has happened in their lives to bring them to this point?' and so forth come into play.
I don't consider Spangel canon (except for within the Spangelus slasher fandom, which would be fanon, not canon). Joss knew exactly what he was doing when he stuck that throw-away line into season V AtS. I'm sure he could hear the "Yes! We were right!" cries from Spangels all over the world. LOL I think he even alluded to it in an interview somewhere - that he was giving them a nod, or throwing them a bone. Having said that, if we accept as canon (and I'm not sure that it is -we're only shown Angelus having both Darla and Dru, not any foursomes) that vampires are all automatically bi-sexual and amoral (and incredibly horny), then it's obviously very easy to slash Spike and Angel/Angelus.
There were hints in canon about Xander - mostly him denying it - so I don't think it's a big stretch to make him bi or gay and in denial. And, as someone pointed out, it was hinted that he found Spike attractive...
One of the messages we can glean from BtVS, is that love is more about the person who is loved, than it is about his or her sex. If you take that message and run with it, then anyone who was gay or straight in canon can be written as the opposite if the object of their affection is believable as someone he/she could fall in love with.
There's also quite a difference between pwp, which are written specifically to show two characters having sex, and real pairings which try to present the characters in a believable relationship. If you're into slash porn (or het, for that matter) and you're there for the sex, then you can probably see anybody doing anybody. Boring, IMHO, but very possible. Much tougher to write and to get into as a reader ( if the pairing doesn't work for you), is a story that presents the characters in a believable relationship. Then things like 'how likely is this', 'do these two characters really work together?', 'what has happened in their lives to bring them to this point?' and so forth come into play.
I don't consider Spangel canon (except for within the Spangelus slasher fandom, which would be fanon, not canon). Joss knew exactly what he was doing when he stuck that throw-away line into season V AtS. I'm sure he could hear the "Yes! We were right!" cries from Spangels all over the world. LOL I think he even alluded to it in an interview somewhere - that he was giving them a nod, or throwing them a bone. Having said that, if we accept as canon (and I'm not sure that it is -we're only shown Angelus having both Darla and Dru, not any foursomes) that vampires are all automatically bi-sexual and amoral (and incredibly horny), then it's obviously very easy to slash Spike and Angel/Angelus.
There were hints in canon about Xander - mostly him denying it - so I don't think it's a big stretch to make him bi or gay and in denial. And, as someone pointed out, it was hinted that he found Spike attractive...
One of the messages we can glean from BtVS, is that love is more about the person who is loved, than it is about his or her sex. If you take that message and run with it, then anyone who was gay or straight in canon can be written as the opposite if the object of their affection is believable as someone he/she could fall in love with.
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Jul 30 2008 04:44 pm #24LadyYashka
I think he even alluded to it in an interview somewhere - that he was giving them a nod, or throwing them a bone.
If you watch the interviews on the Angel season five DVD's Joss says that he thinks that Spike and Angel are the perfect couple because of their long history. So yeah, Joss was throwing us Spike/Angel fans a bone with that line.
That aside, I do believe Spike and Angel to be canon. And the thought of that line still makes me gleeful. (Yes, I cheered when I heard it.)
If you watch the interviews on the Angel season five DVD's Joss says that he thinks that Spike and Angel are the perfect couple because of their long history. So yeah, Joss was throwing us Spike/Angel fans a bone with that line.
That aside, I do believe Spike and Angel to be canon. And the thought of that line still makes me gleeful. (Yes, I cheered when I heard it.)
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As for Buffy, well, she should just be alone for a really long while.
She was. The comics take place 18 months after "Chosen," so even if you don't count season 7 (where she wasn't dating anyone, except that one date with Wood, but clearly had feelings for Spike), she's been alone for a year and a half. And to be perfectly honest, I think being alone is what led to her sleeping with Satsu in the first place. She's lonely and desperately wants to be loved - not to mention that she misses sex.
there's a hint in Hush where we see Giles and Spike duffing around Giles apartment in a very companionable way.
Not to single out you or Spike/Giles, but this always confuses me. Why is it that in fanfic, "companionable" always seems to equal "slashable"? That scene, and many others like it in many other pairings (some Spara and Spander ones come to mind), showed no sexual subtext, it was just friendly. Platonic. Can't anyone just be friends anymore? lol
When I read that, I thought, 'Buffy already went to college.' She had her experiment time already, and didn't use it, LOL. Willow was the one that found new things in college, and even she didn't say, "Gee, I think I'll hook up with a girl."
I think Buffy and Willow were looking for different things in college. Willow spent all of high school being a nerd and an outcast - college was a chance for her to blossom and come into her own, and experimentation was a part of that. Buffy is the complete opposite - she couldn't have been looking for more normal than if she'd walked around with a sign saying, "Seeking normal life." Experimentation totally didn't fit into that. She picked Riley solely because he was the all-American good guy. Plus, she was only in college for three semesters before she had to drop out, so she never really got to have her "experimentation" phase (although I'm sure some of that sex with Spike was new and different, lol).
Besides, regardless of how Joss portrayed it in interviews, I didn't see it as Buffy just being curious and wanting to try something different. I saw it as her being lonely, and being open to another option because there just weren't any guys around to choose from.
The problem that I have with Buffy and Satsu is that it seems to make all the extreme trauma of Buffy-Spike Sexual Plot of little value or consequence. Season Six abusive sexual relationships was the primary theme for the two characters that end up being the ultimate Heroes
I think the point is that it's NOT the same as Buffy/Spike in season six. Buffy and Satsu isn't an abusive sexual relationship, so it has nothing to do with that theme. Buffy never verbally or physically abused Satsu the way she did Spike, and they both went into the sex with full understanding of where they were coming from and what the expectations were. I don't see Satsu as a victim at all here. She's a grown-up who can make her own decisions. She knew full well that Buffy wasn't a lesbian, and one night of hot girl-on-girl action wasn't going to change that, and Satsu made the decision to do it anyway.
She was. The comics take place 18 months after "Chosen," so even if you don't count season 7 (where she wasn't dating anyone, except that one date with Wood, but clearly had feelings for Spike), she's been alone for a year and a half. And to be perfectly honest, I think being alone is what led to her sleeping with Satsu in the first place. She's lonely and desperately wants to be loved - not to mention that she misses sex.
there's a hint in Hush where we see Giles and Spike duffing around Giles apartment in a very companionable way.
Not to single out you or Spike/Giles, but this always confuses me. Why is it that in fanfic, "companionable" always seems to equal "slashable"? That scene, and many others like it in many other pairings (some Spara and Spander ones come to mind), showed no sexual subtext, it was just friendly. Platonic. Can't anyone just be friends anymore? lol
When I read that, I thought, 'Buffy already went to college.' She had her experiment time already, and didn't use it, LOL. Willow was the one that found new things in college, and even she didn't say, "Gee, I think I'll hook up with a girl."
I think Buffy and Willow were looking for different things in college. Willow spent all of high school being a nerd and an outcast - college was a chance for her to blossom and come into her own, and experimentation was a part of that. Buffy is the complete opposite - she couldn't have been looking for more normal than if she'd walked around with a sign saying, "Seeking normal life." Experimentation totally didn't fit into that. She picked Riley solely because he was the all-American good guy. Plus, she was only in college for three semesters before she had to drop out, so she never really got to have her "experimentation" phase (although I'm sure some of that sex with Spike was new and different, lol).
Besides, regardless of how Joss portrayed it in interviews, I didn't see it as Buffy just being curious and wanting to try something different. I saw it as her being lonely, and being open to another option because there just weren't any guys around to choose from.
The problem that I have with Buffy and Satsu is that it seems to make all the extreme trauma of Buffy-Spike Sexual Plot of little value or consequence. Season Six abusive sexual relationships was the primary theme for the two characters that end up being the ultimate Heroes
I think the point is that it's NOT the same as Buffy/Spike in season six. Buffy and Satsu isn't an abusive sexual relationship, so it has nothing to do with that theme. Buffy never verbally or physically abused Satsu the way she did Spike, and they both went into the sex with full understanding of where they were coming from and what the expectations were. I don't see Satsu as a victim at all here. She's a grown-up who can make her own decisions. She knew full well that Buffy wasn't a lesbian, and one night of hot girl-on-girl action wasn't going to change that, and Satsu made the decision to do it anyway.
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Jul 30 2008 08:51 pm #26Scarlet Ibis
Spike and Xander are outsiders, looked down upon, and complete losers. Spike to amuse himself flirts with Xander,
Ah--hold it right there. Spike saw fit to make fun of Xander, and tease him about Anya. I don't think he'd take it as far to flirt with him (maybe if he heard that "dark and mysterious and compacted but well muscled" line, but he didn't so he wouldn't). Also, Xander was wallowing in his loserdom with Giles--they were both feeling extra useless while the girls were in college not needing them. Not that I'm saying Xiles, but they'd be more probable since they spent just as much time together as they did with Spike.
I like to think that Spike holds some affection for Andrew since he can see a little bit of William in him,
Um, I don't think it was that at all. He doesn't mind Andrew and his annoyingness not because he identifies with him (actually, it's Xander who identifies with him), but simply becasue Andrew holds him with this ridiculous high esteem. He looks up to Spike, he respects Spike, so Spike can't help but be nice to him.
Having said that, if we accept as canon (and I'm not sure that it is -we're only shown Angelus having both Darla and Dru, not any foursomes) that vampires are all automatically bi-sexual and amoral (and incredibly horny), then it's obviously very easy to slash Spike and Angel/Angelus.
In TGIQ, Angelus mentions how they weren't allowed to have sex concurrently. So it makes sense to me that any bi or concurrent sex took place after all that Immortal business.
Not to single out you or Spike/Giles, but this always confuses me. Why is it that in fanfic, "companionable" always seems to equal "slashable"? That scene, and many others like it in many other pairings (some Spara and Spander ones come to mind), showed no sexual subtext, it was just friendly. Platonic.
I agree. There was nothing sexual about that scene or any other scene with Giles and Spike (or Spike and Xander, or Spike Andrew--ever). I'd say brotherly or fatherly, but nothing more than that. Two people of the same sex, two straight people mind you, can get along and not want to hump each other. Or hell, two gay people can be friendly and companionable and not want to have sex with the other.
Ah--hold it right there. Spike saw fit to make fun of Xander, and tease him about Anya. I don't think he'd take it as far to flirt with him (maybe if he heard that "dark and mysterious and compacted but well muscled" line, but he didn't so he wouldn't). Also, Xander was wallowing in his loserdom with Giles--they were both feeling extra useless while the girls were in college not needing them. Not that I'm saying Xiles, but they'd be more probable since they spent just as much time together as they did with Spike.
I like to think that Spike holds some affection for Andrew since he can see a little bit of William in him,
Um, I don't think it was that at all. He doesn't mind Andrew and his annoyingness not because he identifies with him (actually, it's Xander who identifies with him), but simply becasue Andrew holds him with this ridiculous high esteem. He looks up to Spike, he respects Spike, so Spike can't help but be nice to him.
Having said that, if we accept as canon (and I'm not sure that it is -we're only shown Angelus having both Darla and Dru, not any foursomes) that vampires are all automatically bi-sexual and amoral (and incredibly horny), then it's obviously very easy to slash Spike and Angel/Angelus.
In TGIQ, Angelus mentions how they weren't allowed to have sex concurrently. So it makes sense to me that any bi or concurrent sex took place after all that Immortal business.
Not to single out you or Spike/Giles, but this always confuses me. Why is it that in fanfic, "companionable" always seems to equal "slashable"? That scene, and many others like it in many other pairings (some Spara and Spander ones come to mind), showed no sexual subtext, it was just friendly. Platonic.
I agree. There was nothing sexual about that scene or any other scene with Giles and Spike (or Spike and Xander, or Spike Andrew--ever). I'd say brotherly or fatherly, but nothing more than that. Two people of the same sex, two straight people mind you, can get along and not want to hump each other. Or hell, two gay people can be friendly and companionable and not want to have sex with the other.
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Jul 30 2008 09:04 pm #27Scarlet Ibis
And I hated the Satsu thing in the comics. It just seemed OOC, for two reasons. One, because I thought Buffy had grown in season 7, after she used Spike for sex. Two, because she's never shown any real interest in girls. Joss said about the Buffy/Satsu pairing: "They have a lot of time on their hands...What? None of you went to college?"
Just to add to that--just because you go to college doesn't mean you want or have the desire or are obligated to exeriment with members of the same sex. That's a BS reason to give Buffy for being "gayed up" all of a sudden.
She was. The comics take place 18 months after "Chosen," so even if you don't count season 7 (where she wasn't dating anyone, except that one date with Wood, but clearly had feelings for Spike), she's been alone for a year and a half. And to be perfectly honest, I think being alone is what led to her sleeping with Satsu in the first place. She's lonely and desperately wants to be loved - not to mention that she misses sex.
Well, there are such things as dildos and vibrators. That's still a pretty sad excuse. There are a lot of women who go through "droughts" or what have you, and don't decide to have sexual relations with women because of it.
Just to add to that--just because you go to college doesn't mean you want or have the desire or are obligated to exeriment with members of the same sex. That's a BS reason to give Buffy for being "gayed up" all of a sudden.
She was. The comics take place 18 months after "Chosen," so even if you don't count season 7 (where she wasn't dating anyone, except that one date with Wood, but clearly had feelings for Spike), she's been alone for a year and a half. And to be perfectly honest, I think being alone is what led to her sleeping with Satsu in the first place. She's lonely and desperately wants to be loved - not to mention that she misses sex.
Well, there are such things as dildos and vibrators. That's still a pretty sad excuse. There are a lot of women who go through "droughts" or what have you, and don't decide to have sexual relations with women because of it.
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Jul 30 2008 10:16 pm #28pfeifferpack
Hope this will post (having site issues too along with little online time of late).
I answered in your LJ dear Scarlet but will keep it short here. Can't see Spander due to their history of hostility. Even less Spiley cause....Spike and RILEY? Not in this universe, not consensual at any rate and that is how I am reading slash questions...as consensual (cause non-con is whole other can of beans). Spilliam just is far too into the whoo-whoo for me (would that be like glorified masterbation???). Spangel in context is the only slash with canon I can see. I think the fact that JM has chemistry with everyone and everything is what makes this whole cafeteria of pairing possible.
Non Spike? Ethan and Giles in his Ripper days...yup, bet money on it. Xander and Andrew....I could see it happening especially post Chosen. Buffy and Faith, yup in context but this is the only F/F with Buffy that makes sense to me. The Buffy I saw wanted emotional connection in her sex (even Parker was a long term boyfriend in her mind!)....so the whole sex just for sex doesn't fit her as I saw it....one reason Spike was so sure she loved him in S6 IMHO.
Andrew is likely gay, as was Lorne. I thought Jonathan likely bi as was Dawn to my view. Willow called herself gay but Oz would indicate bi although I think she did prefer women. I always thought Xander was bi with gay preferences...just not Spike (I think he'd crush on Riley thought). I think Anya could play both ways but prefers men.
Kathleen
I answered in your LJ dear Scarlet but will keep it short here. Can't see Spander due to their history of hostility. Even less Spiley cause....Spike and RILEY? Not in this universe, not consensual at any rate and that is how I am reading slash questions...as consensual (cause non-con is whole other can of beans). Spilliam just is far too into the whoo-whoo for me (would that be like glorified masterbation???). Spangel in context is the only slash with canon I can see. I think the fact that JM has chemistry with everyone and everything is what makes this whole cafeteria of pairing possible.
Non Spike? Ethan and Giles in his Ripper days...yup, bet money on it. Xander and Andrew....I could see it happening especially post Chosen. Buffy and Faith, yup in context but this is the only F/F with Buffy that makes sense to me. The Buffy I saw wanted emotional connection in her sex (even Parker was a long term boyfriend in her mind!)....so the whole sex just for sex doesn't fit her as I saw it....one reason Spike was so sure she loved him in S6 IMHO.
Andrew is likely gay, as was Lorne. I thought Jonathan likely bi as was Dawn to my view. Willow called herself gay but Oz would indicate bi although I think she did prefer women. I always thought Xander was bi with gay preferences...just not Spike (I think he'd crush on Riley thought). I think Anya could play both ways but prefers men.
Kathleen
Jul 30 2008 10:29 pm #29pfeifferpack
As for Spike finessing the pants of any woman gay or straight I think it is interesting how much of the really excellent Spuffy PWP and smut is written by gay women. Clearly he is a turn on even though male.
I have no problem with a couple of well written Spawn stories set in the FUTURE and after they have not been together (brother/sister) in years. Curious Wombat did a great story that makes perfect sense that way. I cannot see Biles though as the father/daughter dynamic was too strong and continuous....with Dawn and Spike there is distance and time that can change the dynamic. I c also see Dawn and Xander changing to a romantic relationship given time for that same reason....sorry, that is off the slash topic *G*.
I can see Spike and male OC's if written right. It all has to be in character for me to buy it. Spike (and Buffy for that matter) hare EMOTIONAL beings who invest heavily in their relationships (in Buffy's case she'll "force" it if she has to like she tried with Parker and did with Riley). The emotions have to be there. Now Spike could have just sex relationships like Harmony but they burn quickly and are not pretty so he may have learned his lesson there LOL. For more than PWP the emotions would have be there for me to buy it be it slash or het and I just don't see many slash situations with Spike OR Buffy that fit that.
Kathleen
Jul 30 2008 11:06 pm #30slaymesoftly
Moderator
Hee, Kathleen. Your remarks remind of a comment some left years and years ago on some board somewhere. Someone had mentioned the chemistry between James and someone (maybe Sarah) and the reply was - "if they paired James with a concrete block, we'd all be on here the next day saying 'wow, did you see the chemistry between James and concrete block? Woo!' " LOL He's just that good (as Spike) at making it seem possible or likely with just about anybody.
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Jul 31 2008 01:00 am #31Immortal Beloved
Not that I'm saying Xiles
Ewwwwww! The thought of Xiles has never even crossed my mind when thinking of pairings :shudder: I think you just named something that I find weirder than Spander
He looks up to Spike, he respects Spike
I don't think there was any bigger crush (not deep emotional feelings, but just a crush) than Andrew's crush on Spike. I always assumed that Andrew was gay, mostly because it was hinted at a couple of times. Like when the Trio is watching Spike and Anya get it on, he says, "(Spike) is so cool! Um, the girl's hot, too." Or how he was always so wrapped up with running away with Warren, just the two of them. Even if he wasn't meant to be gay, the boy had it bad for Spike. But we can all relate to that, can't we?
Just to add to that--just because you go to college doesn't mean you want or have the desire or are obligated to exeriment with members of the same sex. That's a BS reason to give Buffy for being "gayed up" all of a sudden.
I concur. I went away to college. I've never felt the desire to experiment with the same sex. I do know people who did. Some of them traded to the other team, some stayed straight, and some have yet to figure things out. Personally, I think that college is the place where people begin to explore something that they've already felt; but living with one's parent(s) and going to highschool doesn't really provide the opportunity to do things your own way. I made a reactionary post to my LJ back during the whole Batsu incident, if anybody's interested: beloved-77.livejournal.com/10628.html
Spilliam just is far too into the whoo-whoo for me (would that be like glorified masterbation???)
You are cracking me up today, Kathleen.
the whole sex just for sex doesn't fit her as I saw it....one reason Spike was so sure she loved him in S6 IMHO.
Exactly. Buffy is not the type to have sex just for the sake of having sex. Faith? Yes. She didn't want a side of emotion with her sex. Buffy? No. Buffy always wanted emotion with sex, which is one of the reasons why Spike--and I, as well--believe that she loved him in Season Sex.
Ewwwwww! The thought of Xiles has never even crossed my mind when thinking of pairings :shudder: I think you just named something that I find weirder than Spander
He looks up to Spike, he respects Spike
I don't think there was any bigger crush (not deep emotional feelings, but just a crush) than Andrew's crush on Spike. I always assumed that Andrew was gay, mostly because it was hinted at a couple of times. Like when the Trio is watching Spike and Anya get it on, he says, "(Spike) is so cool! Um, the girl's hot, too." Or how he was always so wrapped up with running away with Warren, just the two of them. Even if he wasn't meant to be gay, the boy had it bad for Spike. But we can all relate to that, can't we?
Just to add to that--just because you go to college doesn't mean you want or have the desire or are obligated to exeriment with members of the same sex. That's a BS reason to give Buffy for being "gayed up" all of a sudden.
I concur. I went away to college. I've never felt the desire to experiment with the same sex. I do know people who did. Some of them traded to the other team, some stayed straight, and some have yet to figure things out. Personally, I think that college is the place where people begin to explore something that they've already felt; but living with one's parent(s) and going to highschool doesn't really provide the opportunity to do things your own way. I made a reactionary post to my LJ back during the whole Batsu incident, if anybody's interested: beloved-77.livejournal.com/10628.html
Spilliam just is far too into the whoo-whoo for me (would that be like glorified masterbation???)
You are cracking me up today, Kathleen.the whole sex just for sex doesn't fit her as I saw it....one reason Spike was so sure she loved him in S6 IMHO.
Exactly. Buffy is not the type to have sex just for the sake of having sex. Faith? Yes. She didn't want a side of emotion with her sex. Buffy? No. Buffy always wanted emotion with sex, which is one of the reasons why Spike--and I, as well--believe that she loved him in Season Sex.
Give me Spuffy, or give me death.
I think the point is that it's NOT the same as Buffy/Spike in season six. Buffy and Satsu isn't an abusive sexual relationship, so it has nothing to do with that theme. Buffy never verbally or physically abused Satsu the way she did Spike, and they both went into the sex with full understanding of where they were coming from and what the expectations were. I don't see Satsu as a victim at all here. She's a grown-up who can make her own decisions. She knew full well that Buffy wasn't a lesbian, and one night of hot girl-on-girl action wasn't going to change that, and Satsu made the decision to do it anyway.
Have to admit that I have a very hard time getting over the Season Six Buffy-Spike abusive relationships – and that my perspective on buffy-Satsu is certainly skewed toward the negative due to my strong emotional response to the Buffy-Spike sex story.
Buffy and Satsu did have a completely consensual sexual experience – whatever fall out that comes to Satsu, she willing to accepts.
But, again strictly my personal worldview, having lived through all that ugly dirty abusive sex with another person that loved truly loved her – I would suppose that Buffy would be apprehensive about sex with Satsu. I personally could care less about Buffy-Satsu Sex; it is the idea of Buffy’s history of sex with people who love her and that she does not love back that I find worrisome.
I did not mean to imply that I consider Satsu a victim – she understands how Buffy feels and goes with it – great night of sexual pleasure and connection with another human being. Nor do I suggest that Buffy-Satsu, pleasure sex, is anything like the abusive relationship she had with Spike –
I personally think that a great many people are very curious about having same gender sex and given the right and safe circumstances, they would experiment sexually. Social taboos and cultural conditioning play are a huge part of human sexual conduct – IMO, Buffy would have been very happy to keep Satsu as nice little secret.
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Jul 31 2008 03:02 am #33Scarlet Ibis
I personally think that a great many people are very curious about having same gender sex and given the right and safe circumstances, they would experiment sexually. Social taboos and cultural conditioning play are a huge part of human sexual conduct – IMO, Buffy would have been very happy to keep Satsu as nice little secret.
I don't agree that many people are very curious. However, you do bring up something that I'm sure many of us have forgotten--Buffy intended to keep her sexcapades with Satsu a secret--all of her friends just somehow accidentally stumbled in when they were finished.
"if they paired James with a concrete block, we'd all be on here the next day saying 'wow, did you see the chemistry between James and concrete block? Woo!' " LOL He's just that good (as Spike) at making it seem possible or likely with just about anybody.
Hey Slayme--didn't people get all "wow, wish I was that crypt door!" in "Dead Things?"
I don't agree that many people are very curious. However, you do bring up something that I'm sure many of us have forgotten--Buffy intended to keep her sexcapades with Satsu a secret--all of her friends just somehow accidentally stumbled in when they were finished.
"if they paired James with a concrete block, we'd all be on here the next day saying 'wow, did you see the chemistry between James and concrete block? Woo!' " LOL He's just that good (as Spike) at making it seem possible or likely with just about anybody.
Hey Slayme--didn't people get all "wow, wish I was that crypt door!" in "Dead Things?"
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Jul 31 2008 03:07 am #34Immortal Beloved
Buffy would have been very happy to keep Satsu as nice little secret.
You're exactly right. In fact, Buffy is right in the middle of asking Satsu not to tell anybody when the others burst into the room. I saw it as Fate (and Joss) telling Buffy, "Nuh uh, you're not going there again." But, still, I don't think Buffy would have told anyone if it had been completely up to her. Now, I'm not saying she should have shouted it from the roof of the castle; but there is nothing wrong with sharing with a trusted friend.
You're exactly right. In fact, Buffy is right in the middle of asking Satsu not to tell anybody when the others burst into the room. I saw it as Fate (and Joss) telling Buffy, "Nuh uh, you're not going there again." But, still, I don't think Buffy would have told anyone if it had been completely up to her. Now, I'm not saying she should have shouted it from the roof of the castle; but there is nothing wrong with sharing with a trusted friend.
Give me Spuffy, or give me death.
In TGIQ, Angelus mentions how they weren't allowed to have sex concurrently. So it makes sense to me that any bi or concurrent sex took place after all that Immortal business.
What I got from that was that neither Angelus nor Spike was allowed to have both Darla and Dru at the same time. That doesn't mean that Angelus and Spike couldn't have a threesome with one of the girls, just that no guy gets both girls at once. It's like Harmony's rule - threesomes must be boy, boy, girl (or the 19th century equivalent of Charlize Theron).
Well, there are such things as dildos and vibrators.
But you can't have an emotional connection with your vibrator, which is what I was trying to get at with Buffy's loneliness. It's not just about missing sex - it's also about missing the connection with another person, the affection. As... somebody up there pointed out, Buffy doesn't just have sex with no strings attached. She didn't experiment with just anyone - she slept with Satsu because Satsu loved her, and it's obvious from their interaction that Buffy felt affection for Satsu as well, just not romantic love.
Spilliam just is far too into the whoo-whoo for me (would that be like glorified masterbation???).
You know, you have to have a pretty high opinion of yourself to want to have sex with yourself....
But, again strictly my personal worldview, having lived through all that ugly dirty abusive sex with another person that loved truly loved her – I would suppose that Buffy would be apprehensive about sex with Satsu.
Well, it seemed to me that she was. I mean, the first time Satsu's crush was brought up, Buffy turned her down flat. We don't know what happened to change her mind, but Satsu was clearly the dominant one sexually ("you did more things than me" ). It makes sense that Satsu is more confident, since she's been with girls before, but considering how Buffy reacts before and afterwards, I find it hard to believe that it was her idea to have sex with Satsu.
didn't people get all "wow, wish I was that crypt door!" in "Dead Things?"
Dude, I wrote a fic about it, lol.
What I got from that was that neither Angelus nor Spike was allowed to have both Darla and Dru at the same time. That doesn't mean that Angelus and Spike couldn't have a threesome with one of the girls, just that no guy gets both girls at once. It's like Harmony's rule - threesomes must be boy, boy, girl (or the 19th century equivalent of Charlize Theron).
Well, there are such things as dildos and vibrators.
But you can't have an emotional connection with your vibrator, which is what I was trying to get at with Buffy's loneliness. It's not just about missing sex - it's also about missing the connection with another person, the affection. As... somebody up there pointed out, Buffy doesn't just have sex with no strings attached. She didn't experiment with just anyone - she slept with Satsu because Satsu loved her, and it's obvious from their interaction that Buffy felt affection for Satsu as well, just not romantic love.
Spilliam just is far too into the whoo-whoo for me (would that be like glorified masterbation???).
You know, you have to have a pretty high opinion of yourself to want to have sex with yourself....
But, again strictly my personal worldview, having lived through all that ugly dirty abusive sex with another person that loved truly loved her – I would suppose that Buffy would be apprehensive about sex with Satsu.
Well, it seemed to me that she was. I mean, the first time Satsu's crush was brought up, Buffy turned her down flat. We don't know what happened to change her mind, but Satsu was clearly the dominant one sexually ("you did more things than me" ). It makes sense that Satsu is more confident, since she's been with girls before, but considering how Buffy reacts before and afterwards, I find it hard to believe that it was her idea to have sex with Satsu.
didn't people get all "wow, wish I was that crypt door!" in "Dead Things?"
Dude, I wrote a fic about it, lol.
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Thanks for the reminder - Buffy does not at first want to get involved - my imagination scene is that they are having an honest and intense conversation and things just kinda get intimate from there - the last text on their scene is "find what warmth you can for now."
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Ah--hold it right there. Spike saw fit to make fun of Xander, and tease him about Anya. I don't think he'd take it as far to flirt with him (maybe if he heard that "dark and mysterious and compacted but well muscled" line, but he didn't so he wouldn't). Also, Xander was wallowing in his loserdom with Giles--they were both feeling extra useless while the girls were in college not needing them. Not that I'm saying Xiles, but they'd be more probable since they spent just as much time together as they did with Spike.
Like you said. If Spike discovered a hint about Xander finding him attractive, he'll tease Xander about it to amuse himself. I can see Spike toying with Xander for his own amusement, even if they ended up having sex. Spike is gonna be the winner, because he'll get to humiliate Xander, drop hints about it to his friends to keep Xander scared and wary, drop hints about it to Anya to scare the shit out of Xander. And in the end, he gets to have sex. Nothing wrong with that. You can develop the story from there, which is gonna be slowly movind, which a fave of mine.
It's what makes Spuffy enjoyable. It took years for it to happen and develop. It was a "No way. Would never happen!" in S2, S3, and S4 and then the writers made it believable.
I enjoy couples like Spuffy and Spander that take time to happen and develop than something so easy like Spike/Willow or Xander/Dawn
Like you said. If Spike discovered a hint about Xander finding him attractive, he'll tease Xander about it to amuse himself. I can see Spike toying with Xander for his own amusement, even if they ended up having sex. Spike is gonna be the winner, because he'll get to humiliate Xander, drop hints about it to his friends to keep Xander scared and wary, drop hints about it to Anya to scare the shit out of Xander. And in the end, he gets to have sex. Nothing wrong with that. You can develop the story from there, which is gonna be slowly movind, which a fave of mine.
It's what makes Spuffy enjoyable. It took years for it to happen and develop. It was a "No way. Would never happen!" in S2, S3, and S4 and then the writers made it believable.
I enjoy couples like Spuffy and Spander that take time to happen and develop than something so easy like Spike/Willow or Xander/Dawn
Jul 31 2008 03:15 pm #38Scarlet Ibis
It's what makes Spuffy enjoyable. It took years for it to happen and develop. It was a "No way. Would never happen!" in S2, S3, and S4 and then the writers made it believable.
That's the thing though--I don't think Spuffy "no way--never happen" kind of deal. At least not in the Spander sense. And by teasing Xander, if he knew Xander thought he was hot, I don't mean he would flirt with him. He'd call him "a poof with taste" probably, and make offhand remarks in front of the others to embarass Xander that way, I but I don't see him flirting with Xander. Ever. Under any circumstances. That isn't Spike.
That's the thing though--I don't think Spuffy "no way--never happen" kind of deal. At least not in the Spander sense. And by teasing Xander, if he knew Xander thought he was hot, I don't mean he would flirt with him. He'd call him "a poof with taste" probably, and make offhand remarks in front of the others to embarass Xander that way, I but I don't see him flirting with Xander. Ever. Under any circumstances. That isn't Spike.
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Why? What's wrong with poor Xander? LOL
What I meant about flirt is just Spike teasing Xander for his own amusement, not because he's looking for a relationship. He knows it'll scare Xander and make him uncomfortable, so he'll go for it. His bite was taken away from him, everybody is treating him like a waste of space, the poor vampire needs his fun
To be honest, I never thought Spike would ever be with Buffy until the fifth season. Since I started reading Spander before watching the fourth season, I always saw Spuffy as a Spander-like storyline. Two people who hate each other but one of them -Xander- has the hots for the other, things develop from there.
My favorite Spander story is Sweet Revenge by Jackson. It's about Spike wanting revenge, because of the way Buffy treated him in Fool For Love. He's gonna go for an Angelus method and break one of Buffy's friends and have her pick up the pieces. He knew that Xander thought he was hot and went for him. Of course, Spike isn't Angelus. He couldn't keep up with his plan because he started to feel for Xander, but after what? After he made Xander hate him more and more with the way he's taking advantage of him. It's a complicated, fun and very believable story.
What I meant about flirt is just Spike teasing Xander for his own amusement, not because he's looking for a relationship. He knows it'll scare Xander and make him uncomfortable, so he'll go for it. His bite was taken away from him, everybody is treating him like a waste of space, the poor vampire needs his fun
To be honest, I never thought Spike would ever be with Buffy until the fifth season. Since I started reading Spander before watching the fourth season, I always saw Spuffy as a Spander-like storyline. Two people who hate each other but one of them -Xander- has the hots for the other, things develop from there.
My favorite Spander story is Sweet Revenge by Jackson. It's about Spike wanting revenge, because of the way Buffy treated him in Fool For Love. He's gonna go for an Angelus method and break one of Buffy's friends and have her pick up the pieces. He knew that Xander thought he was hot and went for him. Of course, Spike isn't Angelus. He couldn't keep up with his plan because he started to feel for Xander, but after what? After he made Xander hate him more and more with the way he's taking advantage of him. It's a complicated, fun and very believable story.
Aug 01 2008 01:09 am #40Scarlet Ibis
Nothing's wrong with Xander. He isn't sexy, but I do think he's attractive. However, as IB mentioned a bit further up, Spike is very much into women. Not to mention Spike said that Xander is the guy who he wouldn't even bother to bite, let alone anything else. Especially anything sexual. They could be friends, but nothing more than that.
I started reading that same fic you mentioned at the request of a Spander shipper, and I didn't buy it at all. I read a similar storyline but with Dawn instead of Xander, and I didn't buy that either. Also, this is s5 we're talking about--at that point, and that late in the season, once he realizes that he loves Buffy, he wouldn't try to hurt her friends, no matter how pissed off he was at her (which he wasn't for her not expressing interest in him). Not to mention, he already liked a great deal them of anyway, so it wasn't that much of a stretch.
I did however read a fic placed in s4 with the whole "revenge" spin, but his sights were set on Buffy. That one I thought rang as true. But again, if that same fic had been set in s5...no dice.
I started reading that same fic you mentioned at the request of a Spander shipper, and I didn't buy it at all. I read a similar storyline but with Dawn instead of Xander, and I didn't buy that either. Also, this is s5 we're talking about--at that point, and that late in the season, once he realizes that he loves Buffy, he wouldn't try to hurt her friends, no matter how pissed off he was at her (which he wasn't for her not expressing interest in him). Not to mention, he already liked a great deal them of anyway, so it wasn't that much of a stretch.
I did however read a fic placed in s4 with the whole "revenge" spin, but his sights were set on Buffy. That one I thought rang as true. But again, if that same fic had been set in s5...no dice.
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Aug 01 2008 02:03 am #41Guest
Guest
You know, you have to have a pretty high opinion of yourself to want to have sex with yourself....
I'm pretty sure that Spike would have just such an opinion!!! LOL! I can hear it now: "Damn, that is one sexy bloke. Great hair. Bloody brilliant coat. Nice, tight arse. Yeh, I'd shag that one." Of course, that'd be Spike-on-Spike action...*giggles*
Coquine
I'm pretty sure that Spike would have just such an opinion!!! LOL! I can hear it now: "Damn, that is one sexy bloke. Great hair. Bloody brilliant coat. Nice, tight arse. Yeh, I'd shag that one." Of course, that'd be Spike-on-Spike action...*giggles*
Coquine
Aug 01 2008 03:51 am #42Immortal Beloved
You know, you have to have a pretty high opinion of yourself to want to have sex with yourself
I'm pretty sure that Spike would have just such an opinion!!! LOL! I can hear it now: "Damn, that is one sexy bloke. Great hair. Bloody brilliant coat. Nice, tight arse. Yeh, I'd shag that one." Of course, that'd be Spike-on-Spike action...*giggles* Coquine
Spike has a very high opinion of himself: "I don't want to be this good looking and athletic, but we all have crosses to bear." Spike is very aware of his appeal to women. And I'll be the first to admit that, if someone offered me the chance to be the center of a Spike-Spike sandwich, I wouldn't be turning them down
As for Spike and Buffy being a shot in hell before Season 5, I have to say that there was an obvious...something there the entire time. Spike looks like he wants to eat Buffy up when he first sees her in the Bronze, but it's not necessarily a suck-her-blood kind of way The banter and constant frustration with each other reeks of a schoolyard crush. Although, admittedly, killing each other is a bit more severe that bra-snapping. And let's not forget, "I'd rather be fighting you." So, there was something there from the beginning, and I don't think it was just on Spike's side. I don't think it was love, but there was at least an attraction of some sort.
I'm pretty sure that Spike would have just such an opinion!!! LOL! I can hear it now: "Damn, that is one sexy bloke. Great hair. Bloody brilliant coat. Nice, tight arse. Yeh, I'd shag that one." Of course, that'd be Spike-on-Spike action...*giggles* Coquine
Spike has a very high opinion of himself: "I don't want to be this good looking and athletic, but we all have crosses to bear." Spike is very aware of his appeal to women. And I'll be the first to admit that, if someone offered me the chance to be the center of a Spike-Spike sandwich, I wouldn't be turning them down
As for Spike and Buffy being a shot in hell before Season 5, I have to say that there was an obvious...something there the entire time. Spike looks like he wants to eat Buffy up when he first sees her in the Bronze, but it's not necessarily a suck-her-blood kind of way
The banter and constant frustration with each other reeks of a schoolyard crush. Although, admittedly, killing each other is a bit more severe that bra-snapping. And let's not forget, "I'd rather be fighting you." So, there was something there from the beginning, and I don't think it was just on Spike's side. I don't think it was love, but there was at least an attraction of some sort.Give me Spuffy, or give me death.
Guys, how can you do this quote thing? *pouts*
Scarlet, okay, that's your opinion about the story which I respect. As for Spike saying he won't bite Xander. In S5 Triangle, he says that Xander's blood beats the taste of onion rings and we all know how much Spike lurves those onion rings *winks* At Hush, Spike's "Won't bite you" was just an angry statement to Xander's tying Spike to a chair. Xander did it so Spike won't hurt him while he was asleep, and Spike retorted that he won't bite him. I don't think he meant it. Xander is just food, if Spike had a chance, he'll feed, whoever that human was.
Okay, try this fic, Messing With His Head, it's a comedy and very funny! Then tell me what you think of the promise:
http://lusciousspike.livejournal.com/28660.html
Scarlet, okay, that's your opinion about the story which I respect.
As for Spike saying he won't bite Xander. In S5 Triangle, he says that Xander's blood beats the taste of onion rings and we all know how much Spike lurves those onion rings *winks* At Hush, Spike's "Won't bite you" was just an angry statement to Xander's tying Spike to a chair. Xander did it so Spike won't hurt him while he was asleep, and Spike retorted that he won't bite him. I don't think he meant it. Xander is just food, if Spike had a chance, he'll feed, whoever that human was. Okay, try this fic, Messing With His Head, it's a comedy and very funny! Then tell me what you think of the promise:
http://lusciousspike.livejournal.com/28660.html
I'm pretty sure that Spike would have just such an opinion!!!
Yeah, definitely true if there are two Spikes... but I wonder... since the original suggestion that started this train of thought was Spilliam - would Spike want to have sex with William? He seems ashamed of who he was, and buries his Williamy traits under ten layers of cockiness and swagger. Would he really find his human self attractive?
Guys, how can you do this quote thing? *pouts*
You highlight the text you want to quote, and then click the "Quote" button at the top of the reply box.
Yeah, definitely true if there are two Spikes... but I wonder... since the original suggestion that started this train of thought was Spilliam - would Spike want to have sex with William? He seems ashamed of who he was, and buries his Williamy traits under ten layers of cockiness and swagger. Would he really find his human self attractive?
Guys, how can you do this quote thing? *pouts*
You highlight the text you want to quote, and then click the "Quote" button at the top of the reply box.
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
You highlight the text you want to quote, and then click the "Quote" button at the top of the reply box.
Thanks!
Hmmm when it comes to slash, I'm a very flexable reader. I don't enjoy every story I read, mind you. Some of them are silly and some of them have character-bashing (which is the first ticket to a sucky story) and some of them have lousy spelling and grammar. But I've read many great stories with lots of different pairings. It's quite refreshing.
Thanks!
Hmmm when it comes to slash, I'm a very flexable reader. I don't enjoy every story I read, mind you. Some of them are silly and some of them have character-bashing (which is the first ticket to a sucky story) and some of them have lousy spelling and grammar. But I've read many great stories with lots of different pairings. It's quite refreshing.
Aug 01 2008 07:51 pm #46Scarlet Ibis
As for Spike and Buffy being a shot in hell before Season 5, I have to say that there was an obvious...something there the entire time. Spike looks like he wants to eat Buffy up when he first sees her in the Bronze, but it's not necessarily a suck-her-blood kind of way
Totally agree. It was probably just the way James played it, but there was something there from point one.
As for Spike willing to sleep with himself, as Spike or William, I don't think so. Wanking off is not the same as fucking yourself. I think Angelus would, though.
And Sosa, I don't know if I can take much more Spander, but if I do check it out, I'll be sure to let you know what I think. I'm sure you won't want to hear about it, but I'll let you know all the same
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Aug 01 2008 08:29 pm #47Mabel Marsters
My first encounter with slash (I was so new to the whole fandom thing that I didn't even know what slash meant! LOL) was a Spander fic where Xander replaced Buffy in the church when Spike reveals he has a soul. I got as far as Spike kneeling to take Xander's ... and got out of there quick! LOL!
I avoided it like the plague for a long time,but now having found some good authors out there, I actually enjoy reading slash (male only) more than the hetero PWP. I just can't cope with furiously bonking Buffy and Spike chapter after chapter! LOL! For some reason the slash tends to have more of a plot (the stories that I've read anyway)
Angel/Spike is for me the most convincing. I'm not in to Xander/Spike at all - just don't see it. Other characters I can cope with. I would have thought Giles/Spike would be a no no for me but how it was portrayed in Age of Unreason made it seem okay. Spike/Dawn is a definate no no - wouldn't want to read one.
I avoided it like the plague for a long time,but now having found some good authors out there, I actually enjoy reading slash (male only) more than the hetero PWP. I just can't cope with furiously bonking Buffy and Spike chapter after chapter! LOL! For some reason the slash tends to have more of a plot (the stories that I've read anyway)
Angel/Spike is for me the most convincing. I'm not in to Xander/Spike at all - just don't see it. Other characters I can cope with. I would have thought Giles/Spike would be a no no for me but how it was portrayed in Age of Unreason made it seem okay. Spike/Dawn is a definate no no - wouldn't want to read one.
my tongue still misbehaves, keeps digging my own grave.
Spander. The thing of it is...I don't buy it. It would have to be the most bizarre set of circumstances in order for that to eve be considered. Like the end of the world, and it's just the two of them, and even then, I'm not sure I'd buy it.
LOL! I give you the most bizarre of circumstances. This has got to be crack!fic. If not, I apologize for laughing. I'm sure the author is a wonderful human being and her other stories are probably amazingly good. What I read of the story was nicely written. Good word usage, good imagery and pacing. But, Scarlet asked for bizarre circumstances. Chapter one starts it off, but the really bizarre is chapter thirteen.
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Oh, and good to see you posting here, Mabel! Your first encounter with slash is hilarious!
LOL! I give you the most bizarre of circumstances. This has got to be crack!fic. If not, I apologize for laughing. I'm sure the author is a wonderful human being and her other stories are probably amazingly good. What I read of the story was nicely written. Good word usage, good imagery and pacing. But, Scarlet asked for bizarre circumstances. Chapter one starts it off, but the really bizarre is chapter thirteen.
www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml
Oh, and good to see you posting here, Mabel! Your first encounter with slash is hilarious!
Aug 01 2008 09:25 pm #49Mabel Marsters
I must say dawn that the conversation we had over this fic kept me giggling all day! Did panic at what dreams I might have had after it though!
Scarlet - I defy you to find more bizarre Spander than that! This fic also give a whole new meaning to Spike/Other
Thanks for the welcome, Dawn, I'm a bit shy in the whole forum posting thing! LOL.
my tongue still misbehaves, keeps digging my own grave.
For some reason the slash tends to have more of a plot (the stories that I've read anyway)
That's interesting, because I've found the opposite to be true. Particularly since slash usually needs more explanation (why are these characters who have never shown homosexual tendencies nor any particular attraction to each other suddenly having sex?), and I usually find that part lacking. Clearly, we have been reading fic in very different circles, lol.
I've been reading more slash over the last couple days, for some reason, and I've noticed that my main hang-up is the believability. I have no problem finding the sex hot, even if it's a pairing I don't especially like (as long as Spike's there, it's hot, lol), but I rarely say, "Yeah, that could happen in an episode," or even, "Yeah, that makes sense," the way I would with Spuffy fic.
That's interesting, because I've found the opposite to be true. Particularly since slash usually needs more explanation (why are these characters who have never shown homosexual tendencies nor any particular attraction to each other suddenly having sex?), and I usually find that part lacking. Clearly, we have been reading fic in very different circles, lol.
I've been reading more slash over the last couple days, for some reason, and I've noticed that my main hang-up is the believability. I have no problem finding the sex hot, even if it's a pairing I don't especially like (as long as Spike's there, it's hot, lol), but I rarely say, "Yeah, that could happen in an episode," or even, "Yeah, that makes sense," the way I would with Spuffy fic.
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
It's easy why you can say that this Spuffy could happen, because it is canon. Pairings that never happened need more work to be believable.
To be honest, I rather read a fic with non-canon pairing that has a plot and respects all the characters than a canon pairing with no plot and has lots of character-bashing. My problem with Spuffy fics is the character-bashing. I can't say that I see this story as canon because suddenly Willow acts like an asshole for no real reason or Buffy yells harshly at Xander that he's a homophobe just because he made a small comment how how icky it is to carry a passed out naked Spike to Buffy's room. Believe me, read this in a Spuffy fic, and yeah, the pairing is canon, but the story doesn't feel like it.
Slash fics aren't perfect. They do contain lousy plots sometimes and character-bashing, but not all of them are bad. There are outstanding stories. At least to me.
I guess the reason why I enjoy Spike/Xander and can't care less about Spike/Angel is that I like both Xander and Spike, and usually in Spander fics they become equals. But while I don't hate Angel, I don't care about him much to read fics about him, and usually in Spangel fics he's the superior, or he's top, and Spike is usually bottom. Which doesn't work for me.
I like stories slash or het. where the people are written in character. This is why I have a difficult time buying much of the slash fiction that is out there. If they are in character (meaning how they are portrayed by what we saw on the show), then those who showed no real interest for the same sex would not be showing it in a fic.
Because Spike and Angel are vampires and there has been reference in canon to a possible hook up, I can believe that they might get together with both staying in character. I could care less about who's top and bottom. LOL. I skip those parts most of the time and I like more of the emotional stuff in slash.
Xander and Spike in character, I can not see.
I can't stand the slash stories were if one couple is gay, then everyone else is. Please. That' s just plain stupid.
When it comes down to it, though, I'm a Spuffy girl. That's what I mostly write. I try not to bash characters, but I do try to keep it real, which means that there are times that some of the characters are going to be portrayed in a bad light.
I love fan fiction, because whatever you are into reading, you'll probably find someone, somewhere writing it. And what you don't like, you can pass up.
I have enjoyed reading the posts in this thread and seeing what others think. I like a good discussion.
Because Spike and Angel are vampires and there has been reference in canon to a possible hook up, I can believe that they might get together with both staying in character. I could care less about who's top and bottom. LOL. I skip those parts most of the time and I like more of the emotional stuff in slash.
Xander and Spike in character, I can not see.
I can't stand the slash stories were if one couple is gay, then everyone else is. Please. That' s just plain stupid.
When it comes down to it, though, I'm a Spuffy girl. That's what I mostly write. I try not to bash characters, but I do try to keep it real, which means that there are times that some of the characters are going to be portrayed in a bad light.
I love fan fiction, because whatever you are into reading, you'll probably find someone, somewhere writing it. And what you don't like, you can pass up.
I have enjoyed reading the posts in this thread and seeing what others think. I like a good discussion.
Aug 01 2008 11:40 pm #53Always_jbj
Moderator
LOL Pretty much what Dawn said!
There are good and bad authors for every pairing imaginable and there are some that couldn't sell any pairing no matter how canon it is, and some that could make you believe in Spike/door as your OTP. There is nothing in my experience that tells me that Spuffy stories are generally better written than slash, or vice versa--it all comes down to individual authors and how well they can pen a good tale.
I personally find most Spike slash stories very difficult to buy, but I have read some fabulous ones.
There are good and bad authors for every pairing imaginable and there are some that couldn't sell any pairing no matter how canon it is, and some that could make you believe in Spike/door as your OTP. There is nothing in my experience that tells me that Spuffy stories are generally better written than slash, or vice versa--it all comes down to individual authors and how well they can pen a good tale.
I personally find most Spike slash stories very difficult to buy, but I have read some fabulous ones.
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You can go to war
But only if you have to
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Have a question -
When I first started reading Buffyverse fan fiction - I did read slash and enjoyed it - never much cared for Spike and other female pairings other than when they were together only temporary in the story. What I find that happened with me, was that the more I read excellent stories based on Buffy-Spike and as the series progressed with their story I had very little interest in reading works other than Spuffy or Buffy-Spike as a couple -
Did this pattern develop with anyone else - Now I almost never am drawn to Spike-Other at all. Even having read some of the excellent Spike-Tara works, I am still primarily interested in Spuffy - happy or dark.
Started reading a Spike-Dawn story one time that really made me recommit to my "no censorship" stand - story totally creep-ed me out - mainly because the who issue of "emotional status of a man that would want to need a young teenage girl" was not brought into the story with depth. Any Spike-Dawn story, IMO, really has to be very serious circumstances.
When I first started reading Buffyverse fan fiction - I did read slash and enjoyed it - never much cared for Spike and other female pairings other than when they were together only temporary in the story. What I find that happened with me, was that the more I read excellent stories based on Buffy-Spike and as the series progressed with their story I had very little interest in reading works other than Spuffy or Buffy-Spike as a couple -
Did this pattern develop with anyone else - Now I almost never am drawn to Spike-Other at all. Even having read some of the excellent Spike-Tara works, I am still primarily interested in Spuffy - happy or dark.
Started reading a Spike-Dawn story one time that really made me recommit to my "no censorship" stand - story totally creep-ed me out - mainly because the who issue of "emotional status of a man that would want to need a young teenage girl" was not brought into the story with depth. Any Spike-Dawn story, IMO, really has to be very serious circumstances.
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Aug 02 2008 12:09 am #55Always_jbj
Moderator
Did this pattern develop with anyone else - Now I almost never am drawn to Spike-Other at all.
Actually the complete opposite for me (however, I didn't discover fan-fiction until after the series was over), initially all I was interested in reading was Spike/Buffy (it is still my preferred paring) but my reading horizons have broadened and I am willing to read just about anything now as long as it is well-written.
Actually the complete opposite for me (however, I didn't discover fan-fiction until after the series was over), initially all I was interested in reading was Spike/Buffy (it is still my preferred paring) but my reading horizons have broadened and I am willing to read just about anything now as long as it is well-written.
Aim from the heart
Some will love and some will curse you, baby
You can go to war
But only if you have to
Fanfic ~*~ Artwork ~*~ Live Journal
Some will love and some will curse you, baby
You can go to war
But only if you have to
Fanfic ~*~ Artwork ~*~ Live Journal
To be honest, I rather read a fic with non-canon pairing that has a plot and respects all the characters than a canon pairing with no plot and has lots of character-bashing.
I completely agree... however, I've found no shortage of good fics, and about 90% of what I read are Spuffy fics, so there are plenty of them out there that don't contain character bashing. If you're not finding any, then you're probably looking in the wrong place, and I - and I'm sure plenty of others on this site - would be happy to rec you some good stuff.
If they are in character (meaning how they are portrayed by what we saw on the show), then those who showed no real interest for the same sex would not be showing it in a fic.
Yeah, very true... I think that's why I have such a hard time finding slash I like.
Did this pattern develop with anyone else
Nope, I came into the Buffy fandom looking for Spuffy, and it's still my favorite. But I have branched out a bit to other pairings that I not only wasn't interested in reading before, but never would've even considered.
I completely agree... however, I've found no shortage of good fics, and about 90% of what I read are Spuffy fics, so there are plenty of them out there that don't contain character bashing. If you're not finding any, then you're probably looking in the wrong place, and I - and I'm sure plenty of others on this site - would be happy to rec you some good stuff.
If they are in character (meaning how they are portrayed by what we saw on the show), then those who showed no real interest for the same sex would not be showing it in a fic.
Yeah, very true... I think that's why I have such a hard time finding slash I like.
Did this pattern develop with anyone else
Nope, I came into the Buffy fandom looking for Spuffy, and it's still my favorite. But I have branched out a bit to other pairings that I not only wasn't interested in reading before, but never would've even considered.
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Aug 02 2008 04:23 am #57slaymesoftly
Moderator
Did this pattern develop with anyone else
Hmm - I went looking for Spike. I read everything for a while, but gradually settled on Spuffy as being my OTP. However, the well written slash stories didn't put me off. If the writer can make me believe it, then I'm be happy. I don't go looking for it, necessarily, but I'll dip into sometimes, just in case I'm going to like it the story. One of my first Slay Me awards went to a non-explicit Spander that just knocked my socks off. Very angsty.
One of my criteria for a decent Spike/anybody, male or female, fic is that respect is paid to the Spuffy relationship. I'm more inclined to believe a Spangel that takes places either well before Sunnydale, or well after it. Ditto for Spander. More inclined to believe it after she's gone. Having said that, I've seen some good evil Spike season IV fics (one or two) where he uses Xander to get back at Buffy. And, a very few where they have a more or less consensual encounter mostly because Spike is bored, not yet in love with Buffy, and a vampire (and therefore, flexible in his choice of partner). He kind of enjoys proving to Xander that he's not quite as hetero as he'd like to think he is.
I find the whole "pairing" idea kind of weird, though. It's just not the first thing I think of when watching a TV show or reading a book. "Who could I pair up with whom that wasn't canon, but would be cool?" I can't imagine myself having any interest in writing any pairings that don't involve Spike in some way. And I'm not interested in reading them, either. Don't care who Angel is banging at AI, or how many orgasms Xander and Anya can wring out of each other. I've seen a couple Buffy/Faith that were quite good - but not very porny. The smutty ones I've seen pretty much sucked. (ROFL) For me, putting two characters together just for the sake of writing a sex scene is really boring. I don't care who does what if it's not #1, a real story, with a plot and a realistic reason for the relationship to develop, and #2, Spike isn't involved.
James and a cinder block...Spike and the door....*eyes glaze over...*
Hmm - I went looking for Spike. I read everything for a while, but gradually settled on Spuffy as being my OTP. However, the well written slash stories didn't put me off. If the writer can make me believe it, then I'm be happy. I don't go looking for it, necessarily, but I'll dip into sometimes, just in case I'm going to like it the story. One of my first Slay Me awards went to a non-explicit Spander that just knocked my socks off. Very angsty.
One of my criteria for a decent Spike/anybody, male or female, fic is that respect is paid to the Spuffy relationship. I'm more inclined to believe a Spangel that takes places either well before Sunnydale, or well after it. Ditto for Spander. More inclined to believe it after she's gone. Having said that, I've seen some good evil Spike season IV fics (one or two) where he uses Xander to get back at Buffy. And, a very few where they have a more or less consensual encounter mostly because Spike is bored, not yet in love with Buffy, and a vampire (and therefore, flexible in his choice of partner). He kind of enjoys proving to Xander that he's not quite as hetero as he'd like to think he is.
I find the whole "pairing" idea kind of weird, though. It's just not the first thing I think of when watching a TV show or reading a book. "Who could I pair up with whom that wasn't canon, but would be cool?" I can't imagine myself having any interest in writing any pairings that don't involve Spike in some way. And I'm not interested in reading them, either. Don't care who Angel is banging at AI, or how many orgasms Xander and Anya can wring out of each other. I've seen a couple Buffy/Faith that were quite good - but not very porny. The smutty ones I've seen pretty much sucked. (ROFL) For me, putting two characters together just for the sake of writing a sex scene is really boring. I don't care who does what if it's not #1, a real story, with a plot and a realistic reason for the relationship to develop, and #2, Spike isn't involved.
James and a cinder block...Spike and the door....*eyes glaze over...*
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I didn't start reading fan fiction until after the show had ended as well. I was just so in love with Spike and the idea of Spuffy, that I just couldn't let it go. I went looking online for anything having to do with the show and with James Marsters.
I stumbled onto an author's personal website with Spuffy fiction. It was fairly steamy stuff and I can't remember which author, but I was hooked and went looking for more. All I can remember is there was a pirate story and one where Spike and Buffy got caught in an ice bubble? Or something. If that rings a bell, let me know who the author is so I can thank her for dragging me into the fan fiction world.
It wasn't until I got started posting on forums and writing my own stories that I read slash. I still don't read that much of it, but what I did read then and now is what people I know have recommended. I don't go searching it out, but if someone I admire in the fandom recommends a slash story, I'll give it go. Most of the time, I haven't been sorry that I did. I might have an even dimmer view of slash, if I went searching for it on my own and found the awful stories. LOL!
I stumbled onto an author's personal website with Spuffy fiction. It was fairly steamy stuff and I can't remember which author, but I was hooked and went looking for more. All I can remember is there was a pirate story and one where Spike and Buffy got caught in an ice bubble? Or something.
If that rings a bell, let me know who the author is so I can thank her for dragging me into the fan fiction world. It wasn't until I got started posting on forums and writing my own stories that I read slash. I still don't read that much of it, but what I did read then and now is what people I know have recommended. I don't go searching it out, but if someone I admire in the fandom recommends a slash story, I'll give it go. Most of the time, I haven't been sorry that I did. I might have an even dimmer view of slash, if I went searching for it on my own and found the awful stories. LOL!
Aug 02 2008 08:28 am #59Scarlet Ibis
I discovered fan fic...balls. After season five, I want to say. Though it could have been during season six--I can't recall specifically.
I was on a search of James pics online, since there weren't enough in magazines...Er, anyway, I stumbled into fan fiction. And I was all like, "What the hell is this?" And at that time, there was nothing but Spuffy. At least, of what I saw. I remember reading something where Spike and Buffy were walking along rail road tracks or something, and it was really short. Somehow, I discovered Gillian Silverlight (her name caught my attention--it's mine but with a G), read all the stuff on her personal site, then I stumbled upon sinister-attraction, and was hooked.
There were days I missed school, cause I stayed up all night reading epic fics on there from late at night till morning. And that was when I had dial up, lol. I was on a search for all things James, and ended up being this Spuffy aholic. It was a long time before other pairings even entered the picture for me, but yeah, I'm a Spuffy gal. Sometimes Spangel, but it's hard to find really excellent ones that I have to reread. And reread again. I do have a few gems though
I was on a search of James pics online, since there weren't enough in magazines...Er, anyway, I stumbled into fan fiction. And I was all like, "What the hell is this?" And at that time, there was nothing but Spuffy. At least, of what I saw. I remember reading something where Spike and Buffy were walking along rail road tracks or something, and it was really short. Somehow, I discovered Gillian Silverlight (her name caught my attention--it's mine but with a G), read all the stuff on her personal site, then I stumbled upon sinister-attraction, and was hooked.
There were days I missed school, cause I stayed up all night reading epic fics on there from late at night till morning. And that was when I had dial up, lol. I was on a search for all things James, and ended up being this Spuffy aholic. It was a long time before other pairings even entered the picture for me, but yeah, I'm a Spuffy gal. Sometimes Spangel, but it's hard to find really excellent ones that I have to reread. And reread again. I do have a few gems though
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Aug 02 2008 09:26 am #60Always_jbj
Moderator
LOL I was searching for pics too...but I typed "Spike" so I got All About Spike...not a bad intro to fan fic.
Aim from the heart
Some will love and some will curse you, baby
You can go to war
But only if you have to
Fanfic ~*~ Artwork ~*~ Live Journal
Some will love and some will curse you, baby
You can go to war
But only if you have to
Fanfic ~*~ Artwork ~*~ Live Journal
Aug 02 2008 10:20 am #61goldenusagi
Well, I already knew about fandoms and fanfic, so after I finished Buffy, that's what I went looking for. I knew everything sort of ended badly, but unlike other couples, Spike and Buffy never really had a happy time. I'm pretty sure my thinking was, "This looks like a show that could have a pretty obsessive fandom. Let's see if they're writing about Spike and Buffy." And boy were they ever, LOL. I really don' t go looking for anything but Spuffy to read; I just am not interested in reading a long fic about another pairing. And most shorter, non-pairing fics that I've read still involve Spike in some way.
I also stumbled into fanfic with All About Spike, became a bit obsessive about reading all the stories there and then moved on to other fanfic sites. Have always been most interested in Spuffy pairing, but I agree with others that a well-written story involving Spike can make me believe ALMOST any pairing. Still can't read a Spawn story. Didn't read much slash until I stumbled upon Jenny's Lovethatdares.com fic website. She writes Spangel mostly, but there are actually some Spiles stories that are wonderful. Her stories are complex and her Spangel series "Time is the Fire in Which We Burn" series and its sequel hooked me into Spangel and still hasn't let go. I've reread the series at least a couple of times. I also read Spander, it started with Lazuli's epic "Repossession" and went on from there. A lot of Spander is just simply a little too ridiculous, but I agree with others that a great writer can make it work.
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I find the whole "pairing" idea kind of weird, though. It's just not the first thing I think of when watching a TV show or reading a book. "Who could I pair up with whom that wasn't canon, but would be cool?"
Yeah, I am definitely the same way. Pretty much all of my favorite pairings in every fandom are ones that were canon at some point on the show. At the very least, one character had a canon crush on the other, and I read fic that fulfilled the crush and got them together. I never even considered the idea of pairing up characters in non-canon relationships until I was into my second fandom (The West Wing) and stumbled onto them by accident.
I think my first foray into Spuffy fic was during or after season 5. But I watched the whole series on DVD, so I already knew that Buffy and Spike got together eventually, and I was just impatient for it to happen.
Yeah, I am definitely the same way. Pretty much all of my favorite pairings in every fandom are ones that were canon at some point on the show. At the very least, one character had a canon crush on the other, and I read fic that fulfilled the crush and got them together. I never even considered the idea of pairing up characters in non-canon relationships until I was into my second fandom (The West Wing) and stumbled onto them by accident.
I think my first foray into Spuffy fic was during or after season 5. But I watched the whole series on DVD, so I already knew that Buffy and Spike got together eventually, and I was just impatient for it to happen.
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I stumbled onto an author's personal website with Spuffy fiction. It was fairly steamy stuff and I can't remember which author, but I was hooked and went looking for more. All I can remember is there was a pirate story and one where Spike and Buffy got caught in an ice bubble? Or something. If that rings a bell, let me know who the author is so I can thank her for dragging me into the fan fiction world.
Sounds like Kantayra's site, although, her angelfire site has been moved to here. She doesn't dabble in BtVS/AtS any longer, that I'm aware, but still dabbles in fanfiction - hence the multitude of fandoms present. Zero is the "ice story." Skull & Dagger is the "pirate one." *grin* Can you tell I've read a few of Kantayra's works? LOL. And, just to add on to some of the earlier conversations, if you want Spike being a smug bastard and thinking he looks good and will "do himself" there's Double Spiked - always a classic!
I've read too many really well-written Spander fics not to be able to see it. I've even written a couple myself. (That's all the fault of SpikesKat - blame her).
Slayme? Why am *I* being blamed? *grumbles* I didn't do it; you're a closet slash fan.
To be honest, I rather read a fic with non-canon pairing that has a plot and respects all the characters than a canon pairing with no plot and has lots of character-bashing.
Me too! Don't really care for the 'my OTP is gay, so everyone is gay' stories either. Or the stories that authors say, "I don't like [insert laundry list of things author objects to that were canon and in no way support their OTP] so, just 'ignore them'." Wha huh? Srsly? But, then, that's me, I guess; show me a plausible reason why these characters are together and I'll probably read it.
Before I catch any flack, I probably should point out that I don't really have an OTP anymore, although my first love is/was Spuffy. So, yes, I read het and slash (including a few fem-slash) stories.
If that rings a bell, let me know who the author is so I can thank her for dragging me into the fan fiction world. Sounds like Kantayra's site, although, her angelfire site has been moved to here. She doesn't dabble in BtVS/AtS any longer, that I'm aware, but still dabbles in fanfiction - hence the multitude of fandoms present. Zero is the "ice story." Skull & Dagger is the "pirate one." *grin* Can you tell I've read a few of Kantayra's works? LOL. And, just to add on to some of the earlier conversations, if you want Spike being a smug bastard and thinking he looks good and will "do himself" there's Double Spiked - always a classic!
I've read too many really well-written Spander fics not to be able to see it. I've even written a couple myself. (That's all the fault of SpikesKat - blame her).
Slayme? Why am *I* being blamed? *grumbles* I didn't do it; you're a closet slash fan.
To be honest, I rather read a fic with non-canon pairing that has a plot and respects all the characters than a canon pairing with no plot and has lots of character-bashing.
Me too! Don't really care for the 'my OTP is gay, so everyone is gay' stories either. Or the stories that authors say, "I don't like [insert laundry list of things author objects to that were canon and in no way support their OTP] so, just 'ignore them'." Wha huh? Srsly? But, then, that's me, I guess; show me a plausible reason why these characters are together and I'll probably read it.
Before I catch any flack, I probably should point out that I don't really have an OTP anymore, although my first love is/was Spuffy. So, yes, I read het and slash (including a few fem-slash) stories.
Aug 03 2008 12:47 am #65Always_jbj
Moderator
Kat!!
Speaking of authors who could make you believe in Spike/Door as your OTP! lol
Speaking of authors who could make you believe in Spike/Door as your OTP! lol
Aim from the heart
Some will love and some will curse you, baby
You can go to war
But only if you have to
Fanfic ~*~ Artwork ~*~ Live Journal
Some will love and some will curse you, baby
You can go to war
But only if you have to
Fanfic ~*~ Artwork ~*~ Live Journal
When it comes down to it, though, I'm a Spuffy girl. That's what I mostly write. I try not to bash characters, but I do try to keep it real, which means that there are times that some of the characters are going to be portrayed in a bad light.
Oh, I agree completely. Like for example Willow and Anya's dislike of each other, same with Xander and Spike. Buffy and Spike's way of exchanging insults. And so on. All that shows bad traits but all are canon. But then you see fics where Spike insults Xander and Buffy laughs at that, and when Xander insults Spike and Buffy yells at him to shut up. Now that's just biased on the writer's part, and believe me, I read it a lot.
Oh, I agree completely. Like for example Willow and Anya's dislike of each other, same with Xander and Spike. Buffy and Spike's way of exchanging insults. And so on. All that shows bad traits but all are canon. But then you see fics where Spike insults Xander and Buffy laughs at that, and when Xander insults Spike and Buffy yells at him to shut up. Now that's just biased on the writer's part, and believe me, I read it a lot.
Aug 03 2008 03:00 pm #68Scarlet Ibis
But then you see fics where Spike insults Xander and Buffy laughs at that, and when Xander insults Spike and Buffy yells at him to shut up. Now that's just biased on the writer's part, and believe me, I read it a lot
Um...where? *scratches head* I've seen character bashing in the sense where Xander might be slow, dumb, and/or mean and is obsessed with Buffy, trying to hurt her and/or kill Spike, and in those cases, it just wasn't Xander at all, and in fact some dude the writer slapped with the name "Xander," but I've never seen one where Buffy is downright mean to her BFF as well. Not saying it doesn't happen, but this is news to me. Or at least in abundance. Maybe you should get some Spuffy recs
Also, I read the Spander short, and I gotta say, I'm not sure that Xander would invite Spike over for drinks, though I could see them finishing them at the Bronze, and also, why would they be naked? It's never explained, and I don't buy it.
Um...where? *scratches head* I've seen character bashing in the sense where Xander might be slow, dumb, and/or mean and is obsessed with Buffy, trying to hurt her and/or kill Spike, and in those cases, it just wasn't Xander at all, and in fact some dude the writer slapped with the name "Xander," but I've never seen one where Buffy is downright mean to her BFF as well. Not saying it doesn't happen, but this is news to me. Or at least in abundance. Maybe you should get some Spuffy recs
Also, I read the Spander short, and I gotta say, I'm not sure that Xander would invite Spike over for drinks, though I could see them finishing them at the Bronze, and also, why would they be naked? It's never explained, and I don't buy it.
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
They're drunk, Scarlet, they drank more than seven or eight bottles, maybe even more, it's been awhile since I read it. As for the nakedness, Spike does sleep naked. Xander is too wasted to know how to wear his PJs. Makes perfect sense. What's funny about it is that Xander thinks they had sex, Spike knows they didn't but plays with Xander's head. The pranks Spike did were really funny. Vamp needs his fun and who's better than Xander to make fun of *hugs poor clueless Xander*
I've read Buffy being mean to Xander in favor of Spike in MANY fics. And I guess a few are here. Actually the latest one I read was two days ago, it was a rec at colddeadseed forums. Not only Buffy was too mean, even Willow and Giles. lol. I won't say anything if Xander deserved it, but he just made a comment about not carrying a naked Spike inside the house, which was funny, but I guess Buffy, Willow and Giles don't know humor when it concerned Spike.
But lately, most Spuffy I read are those written by writers I trust or recced to me personally, because everyone knows how I dislike character bashing.
I've read Buffy being mean to Xander in favor of Spike in MANY fics. And I guess a few are here. Actually the latest one I read was two days ago, it was a rec at colddeadseed forums. Not only Buffy was too mean, even Willow and Giles. lol. I won't say anything if Xander deserved it, but he just made a comment about not carrying a naked Spike inside the house, which was funny, but I guess Buffy, Willow and Giles don't know humor when it concerned Spike.
But lately, most Spuffy I read are those written by writers I trust or recced to me personally, because everyone knows how I dislike character bashing.
Here's a very well written essay about the things Xander and Spike have in common, I hope you guys enjoy it:
http://community.livejournal.com/fall_for_sx/182133.html
http://community.livejournal.com/fall_for_sx/182133.html
Good essay.
I can buy unconventional pairings or unlikely slash only in the case of spells, curses or liquor/drugs, so the out of character stuff isn't so jarring.
IE: Anya/Giles in Tabula Rasa. They don't know but assume they're together, kissing ensues. Anya/Spike in Entropy - they're bummed out and drunk, sex ensues. I totally bought that they would do this.
So I guess "being emotionally fragile" would be another circumstance in which it could work.
But also in Tabula Rasa, Willow and Xander think they're a couple at first, but Willow realizes she's kinda gay, so even with magic making her lose her memory, her orientation doesn't change.
Even if a character's wasted, if he's not just a little bit bi-curious, he's probably not going to do anything outside of his usual sexual preference.
I can buy unconventional pairings or unlikely slash only in the case of spells, curses or liquor/drugs, so the out of character stuff isn't so jarring.
IE: Anya/Giles in Tabula Rasa. They don't know but assume they're together, kissing ensues. Anya/Spike in Entropy - they're bummed out and drunk, sex ensues. I totally bought that they would do this.
So I guess "being emotionally fragile" would be another circumstance in which it could work.
But also in Tabula Rasa, Willow and Xander think they're a couple at first, but Willow realizes she's kinda gay, so even with magic making her lose her memory, her orientation doesn't change.
Even if a character's wasted, if he's not just a little bit bi-curious, he's probably not going to do anything outside of his usual sexual preference.
I actually didn't buy Willow finding out she's gay in Tabula Rasa just like I didn't buy Buffy and Dawn "discovering" they're sister. Urgh! Tabula Rasa is very overrated. The only bits that amused me were the Randy/Rupert/Enya scenes as well as the Rupert/Enya scenes, they were fun because the situations are very off and it came out so realistic.
I agree with you about needing a good reason to get two characters who are not together together. In the Spander I'm writing right now for Fall_For_Spander, during Seeing Red, after Xander discovers that Spike attempted to rape Buffy, Anya curses Xander through a wish from Buffy that he'd understand what was it like for her with Spike, she turns him into a girl and he has to have sex with Spike to be a guy again. It's actually very angsty and I'm proud of it.
I agree with you about needing a good reason to get two characters who are not together together. In the Spander I'm writing right now for Fall_For_Spander, during Seeing Red, after Xander discovers that Spike attempted to rape Buffy, Anya curses Xander through a wish from Buffy that he'd understand what was it like for her with Spike, she turns him into a girl and he has to have sex with Spike to be a guy again. It's actually very angsty and I'm proud of it.
sosa lola... I'd read that...sounds interesting. (Spell/curse!) Please let us know when it's ready to go.
I do like my cursefic.
I do like my cursefic.
Oct 02 2008 01:58 am #74Scarlet Ibis
I actually didn't buy Willow finding out she's gay in Tabula Rasa just like I didn't buy Buffy and Dawn "discovering" they're sister.
I'll agree with that, since she was straight and attracted to Xander sexually once upon a time. The Buffy/Dawn thing, well hell...Dawn is made out of Buffy (whatever the hell that means), but eh. That is one of my favorite eps of season six. I did however think it was interesting that Buffy was more interested in protecting Spike than anyone. Her super strength/slayerness only comes out not when she herself is being attacked/held hostage, but when the vampire was going to harm Randy. Total tangent from the original thread...but whatev
I'll agree with that, since she was straight and attracted to Xander sexually once upon a time. The Buffy/Dawn thing, well hell...Dawn is made out of Buffy (whatever the hell that means), but eh. That is one of my favorite eps of season six. I did however think it was interesting that Buffy was more interested in protecting Spike than anyone. Her super strength/slayerness only comes out not when she herself is being attacked/held hostage, but when the vampire was going to harm Randy. Total tangent from the original thread...but whatev
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
sosa lola... I'd read that...sounds interesting. (Spell/curse!) Please let us know when it's ready to go. I do like my cursefic.
It'll be out in Nov the first according to my posting time at Fall_For_Spander Thank you, I'll make sure to inform you about it.
I hope you enjoy it, my fics have always been Spuffy friendly, I don't do the character-ship-bashing thing
Scarlet, Tabula Rasa let me down actually, I thought it'll be awesome, but then it kinda went "fanficcie" with Willow discovering her attraction to Tara and Buffy and Dawn discovering they're sisters just because they were fighting... meh. I loved the Rupert/Enya/Randy stuff because it was wrong, all of it. Spike isn't Giles' son, Anya isn't Giles' girlfriend... that was so much fun and interesting. The other characters sadly didn't have that charm because they were acting a little predictable. Yeah, Tara thinks Willow's name is beautiful, because they're actually in love, you know, meh. They don't know each other!!! Put more twists.
I do like my cursefic.It'll be out in Nov the first according to my posting time at Fall_For_Spander
Thank you, I'll make sure to inform you about it.I hope you enjoy it, my fics have always been Spuffy friendly, I don't do the character-ship-bashing thing
Scarlet, Tabula Rasa let me down actually, I thought it'll be awesome, but then it kinda went "fanficcie" with Willow discovering her attraction to Tara and Buffy and Dawn discovering they're sisters just because they were fighting... meh. I loved the Rupert/Enya/Randy stuff because it was wrong, all of it. Spike isn't Giles' son, Anya isn't Giles' girlfriend... that was so much fun and interesting. The other characters sadly didn't have that charm because they were acting a little predictable. Yeah, Tara thinks Willow's name is beautiful, because they're actually in love, you know, meh. They don't know each other!!! Put more twists.
After seeing this exchange between James Marsters as Captain John Hart and Barrowman as Captain Jack on Torchwood, I'm totally getting the point of this. Can there be fighting too?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_FcrdMMxHs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_FcrdMMxHs
sosa lola... I'd read that...sounds interesting. (Spell/curse!) Please let us know when it's ready to go.
Just posted my fic Enjoy!!!
http://community.livejournal.com/fall_for_sx/188254.html
Just posted my fic
Enjoy!!!http://community.livejournal.com/fall_for_sx/188254.html
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