BSV Forum - General - The Bloodshedpub
unfinished linesJan 03 2009 02:50 pm #1Guest
Guest
I was watching seasons 5 and 6 of Buffy lately, and I was wondering if we could talk about two times Spike doesn't finish a seemingly intense sentence. I know people infer what they think the rest would be, but I'd like to see what most people believe he meant.
The first time was in The Gift when Spike is giving his speech to Buffy on the stairs, saying "I know you'll never love me. I know that I'm a monster. But you treat me like a man, and that's... " What do you think will finish this line? Not just the words, but the idea?
The second time was in Smashed, and this one really gets to me because it's at such a vital point where so many people disagree with who was feeling or thinking what. In the abandoned house where Buffy and Spike first fight and then have sex, right before Buffy kisses Spike, he says, "Afraid I'm gonna --"
Spike's insights can be scarily truthful or annoying or show a lot more about him than the person he's talking about and I want to know what he thinks Buffy is afraid of. How was he going to finish that, what idea or feelings were going on with him before Buffy kissed him, when he was talking? i know individuals can have slightly different or very different ideas, but i want to see if there's a common belief underlaid it that we viewers saw that maybe the writers meant or didn't mean. A lot of season 6 depended on the actor's skills to show their emotions when they couldn't speak them that often, and facial expresssions and tones can so easily be misread.
Jan 03 2009 08:46 pm #2Scarlet Ibis
Funny--I've fanwanked plenty on missing scenes, but I've never considered these two...At least, not directly after the trailing off.
Spike: But you treat me like a man, and that's more than someone like me deserves. I know it. But I do hope that I'll have the chance to prove to you that I'm worth the consideration. (self deprecating smile) Worth defending to your mates, like before.
Buffy: (uncomfortable pause--looks away) You have, Spike. If you hadn't, you wouldn't be here. (gives partial smile)
And she goes upstairs.
******
In the "Smashed" scene, he makes a comment in jest about hurting her, and Buffy responds that he hadn't even come close. He responds with "Afraid to give me the chance?" and then she slams him against the pillar. I personally think that her face looks devoid of any emotion during this whole exchange, but Spike notices a shift, because his expression shifts. From joking to serious at the drop of a hat.
When he's cut off, he looks serious. I interpreted this as Spike understanding, or at least viewing that comment as not meaning in the physical sense, but emotionally. So he sobers up, and looks serious as he starts to say, "You afraid I'm gonna--" I'd surmise he was planning on finishing that sentence with a serious "hurt you." Not as a question, but as a statement. A rhetorical question. I imagine that had she not kissed him (not wanting to hear the truth, right? Since when he gets serious on her is when she lays it on him sexually or violently--physically or verbally--as we see the rest of the season), he would have explained that he wouldn't, because whether she wanted to believe it or not, accepted it or not, he was (a fool) in love with her.
Spike: But you treat me like a man, and that's more than someone like me deserves. I know it. But I do hope that I'll have the chance to prove to you that I'm worth the consideration. (self deprecating smile) Worth defending to your mates, like before.
Buffy: (uncomfortable pause--looks away) You have, Spike. If you hadn't, you wouldn't be here. (gives partial smile)
And she goes upstairs.
******
In the "Smashed" scene, he makes a comment in jest about hurting her, and Buffy responds that he hadn't even come close. He responds with "Afraid to give me the chance?" and then she slams him against the pillar. I personally think that her face looks devoid of any emotion during this whole exchange, but Spike notices a shift, because his expression shifts. From joking to serious at the drop of a hat.
When he's cut off, he looks serious. I interpreted this as Spike understanding, or at least viewing that comment as not meaning in the physical sense, but emotionally. So he sobers up, and looks serious as he starts to say, "You afraid I'm gonna--" I'd surmise he was planning on finishing that sentence with a serious "hurt you." Not as a question, but as a statement. A rhetorical question. I imagine that had she not kissed him (not wanting to hear the truth, right? Since when he gets serious on her is when she lays it on him sexually or violently--physically or verbally--as we see the rest of the season), he would have explained that he wouldn't, because whether she wanted to believe it or not, accepted it or not, he was (a fool) in love with her.
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Jan 03 2009 10:15 pm #3Immortal Beloved
Ooo! Good topic 
In "Smashed," I'd say that Spike was going to say "You afraid I'm gonna hurt you?" But I do think it would have been more of a rhetorical question instead of a statement. The difference being that the rhetorical question is asked with no answer expected, and the statement would just declare a fact. Rhetorical question: "You afraid I'm gonna hurt you?" Statement: "You're afraid I'm gonna hurt you." Spike suspects that Buffy actually believes that he would hurt her, and he's kind of talking out loud as he realizes she truly thinks he would. Spike might have wanted to knock Buffy around a bit, having just discovered that he could fight her again (and we all know how much he likes to fight), but he doesn't seem to have the intent of causing her true harm. We see a similar reaction in "Entropy:"
As for the other...Well, I'll comment on that later, as I have to go pick up my car from the shop
In "Smashed," I'd say that Spike was going to say "You afraid I'm gonna hurt you?" But I do think it would have been more of a rhetorical question instead of a statement. The difference being that the rhetorical question is asked with no answer expected, and the statement would just declare a fact. Rhetorical question: "You afraid I'm gonna hurt you?" Statement: "You're afraid I'm gonna hurt you." Spike suspects that Buffy actually believes that he would hurt her, and he's kind of talking out loud as he realizes she truly thinks he would. Spike might have wanted to knock Buffy around a bit, having just discovered that he could fight her again (and we all know how much he likes to fight), but he doesn't seem to have the intent of causing her true harm. We see a similar reaction in "Entropy:"
SPIKE: You believe him, don't you? You think I was spying on you. You think I could do that?
BUFFY: Because you don't lie or cheat or steal or manipulate...
SPIKE: I don't hurt you.
Again, Spike seems to be saying his thoughts aloud as he realizes that Buffy believes that he would spy on her. He's kind of indignant about the whole thing. He thinks that, even if she doesn't believe he loves her, she should at least know that he wouldn't deliberately do anything to hurt her.As for the other...Well, I'll comment on that later, as I have to go pick up my car from the shop
Give me Spuffy, or give me death.
Jan 04 2009 12:51 am #4Spikez_tart
You afraid I'm gonna - Bite You (and turn you into a vampire?) We know from Nightmares, S1 - that one of Buffy's greatest fears is that she will be turned. From his conversation with the Buffybot:
SPIKE: (quietly) You know I can't bite you.
BUFFYBOT: I think you can. I think you can if I let you, and I want to let you. I want you to bite me and devour me until there's no more.
SPIKE: (smiles) Like this? He bites her neck lightly.
SPIKE: (quietly) You know I can't bite you.
BUFFYBOT: I think you can. I think you can if I let you, and I want to let you. I want you to bite me and devour me until there's no more.
SPIKE: (smiles) Like this? He bites her neck lightly.
If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
One very quick comment - the line from "Smashed" does make a good lead into their relationship and the entire Buffy-Spike season arc. The series makes such superb use of contrasts and circumstance. Based on their history and Buffy's entire relationship with men, I think "Smashed" line refers to her state of mind and devastated emotions. If the line implies emotional or physical hurt by Spike, it is a powerful contrast as it will be Buffy that hurts and uses him while sublimating her own self-hatred and anger and confusion from being resurrected. The tragic reversal is that Spike will eventually do just what he thinks he cannot - hurt her.
One thing for sure is that Season 6 is so much about the realities that all the characters set in motion. Spike's beautiful idea "you treat me like a man" is one reality that will be shattered in Season 6 - Buffy will do anything but treat him like a man after she makes the sexual connection. And his reality of never "hurting her" also, like that building, will also be smashed to pieces. Considering how the season ends, the idea of his lines being a reference to hurt and pain seems a logical choice.
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Jan 04 2009 02:03 am #6Guest
Guest
And his reality of never "hurting her" also, like that building, will also be smashed to pieces.
idk its funny cuz if Buffy had let Spike love her the way he wanted to then none of that hurt would've happened i don't think.
idk its funny cuz if Buffy had let Spike love her the way he wanted to then none of that hurt would've happened i don't think.
I think "You treat me like a man, and that's..." was basically Spike saying thank you, so the ending is probably something like "that's appreciated" or "that's kind of you." But those words are so trite, and it means more to him than he could ever express, so it probably works better that he doesn't finish. She understands him anyway.
I agree that the end of "Afraid I'm gonna..." is "hurt you?" but I don't think they're just talking about physical pain. Maybe that's what it means on the surface, but the underlying meaning is emotional. "Afraid to give me the chance?" sounds an awful lot like Spike's asking about their relationship (as he's been doing all episode), and it's almost like Buffy takes it as a dare - she does take the chance this time by kissing him and then having sex with him. I mean, if it were just about hurting Buffy physically, he's had plenty of chances. Short of letting Spike pummel her without fighting back (which I don't think is what he's after), what more could Buffy do to give him the chance to hurt her?
I agree that the end of "Afraid I'm gonna..." is "hurt you?" but I don't think they're just talking about physical pain. Maybe that's what it means on the surface, but the underlying meaning is emotional. "Afraid to give me the chance?" sounds an awful lot like Spike's asking about their relationship (as he's been doing all episode), and it's almost like Buffy takes it as a dare - she does take the chance this time by kissing him and then having sex with him. I mean, if it were just about hurting Buffy physically, he's had plenty of chances. Short of letting Spike pummel her without fighting back (which I don't think is what he's after), what more could Buffy do to give him the chance to hurt her?
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Jan 04 2009 04:33 am #8slaymesoftly
Moderator
I agree with Eowyn (shocker, I know). I think he would have said "hurt you?" and it would have had a double meaning, as all the men in her life have hurt her up to this point.
I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
I am upper management.
Jan 04 2009 04:41 am #9Scarlet Ibis
*raises hand*
That's what I said. Emotionally, and not in the physical sense. Did what I wrote not come across that way?
<--is genuinely curious.
That's what I said. Emotionally, and not in the physical sense. Did what I wrote not come across that way?
<--is genuinely curious.
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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I know it may come as a shock, but I do occasionally agree with you, Scarlet. I did notice you mentioned emotional hurt, but the comments after yours took it in a physical hurt direction with their examples, so I felt the need to make the distinction in which parts I was agreeing with.
I did notice you mentioned emotional hurt, but the comments after yours took it in a physical hurt direction with their examples, so I felt the need to make the distinction in which parts I was agreeing with. Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Jan 04 2009 05:43 am #11Scarlet Ibis
Lol--I know. I saw the "agree" part of your comment. But IB said something similar, so I wasn't sure if what I meant was clear 
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Jan 04 2009 02:48 pm #12slaymesoftly
Moderator
Sorry, Scarlet. I did notice (after rereading) what you said. I didn't mean that I was agreeing only with Eowyn, hers just happened to be the entry closest to where I was commenting and the closest to what I was thinking. I think I got sidetracked by the physical - facial expressions - stuff, as well as just reading through quickly before I made my comment. I think she cut him off with that kiss because she didn't want to hear any more truths out of his mouth and he was coming pretty close to spouting some.
I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
I am upper management.
Jan 04 2009 05:59 pm #13EveryLastDrop
For "the Gift" I always thought Spike couldn't find the words to say how Buffy treating him like a man, trusting him, made him feel something beyond anything he'd felt before because it was so different and 'good'.
For "Smashed"... I'm a writer. Whenever I see a scene, I end up thinking about what the characters are feeling and their innermost thoughts and why they're acting as they are. I always feel in this ep, watching Spike and Buffy go at it, that Spike really is confused about where he fits and is trying to prove to himself that he isn't a whipped puppy anymore, his feelings are real and out there and now he's on even footing and able to force Buffy to believe him and not think of him as harmless or meaningless. Buffy, I think, is feeling angry and freaked out about the seeming confirmation that she isn't the same as before she died and that's why she's attracted to Spike, and wants to fight that knowledge by physically fighting him, Throughout the whole fight feelings and emotions are battling too. Spike makes the nearly-joking comment about hurting her and when Buffy snaps back, asks, "Afraid to give me the chance?" He seems to be joking, but I think his intent is serious. Buffy reacts violently, and I think Spike is totally serious and intense when he starts to demand, "Afraid I'm gonna--" and Buffy shuts him up by kissing him, defiant of being brought back wrong and not wanting to hear what truth he might know.
I think Spike was going to say something like "save you" or "love you". Is Buffy afraid, not that he's going to hurt her, but that he could love her, which means eventually hurting her to Buffy. Or that he could care enough and want to save her when her friends are barely noticing or involved in their own stuff to really know how much she's going through. She can't let it be Spike who saves her or knows her so well. She's afraid what a soulless monster could feel and what he could do when she might be feeling something for him. Before this ep, Spike was her solace but one she could take for granted because of the chip, but now...
So, knowing most people disagree, I think Spike wasn't going to say 'hurt you' but the idea of 'love you' or 'save you'.
For "Smashed"... I'm a writer. Whenever I see a scene, I end up thinking about what the characters are feeling and their innermost thoughts and why they're acting as they are. I always feel in this ep, watching Spike and Buffy go at it, that Spike really is confused about where he fits and is trying to prove to himself that he isn't a whipped puppy anymore, his feelings are real and out there and now he's on even footing and able to force Buffy to believe him and not think of him as harmless or meaningless. Buffy, I think, is feeling angry and freaked out about the seeming confirmation that she isn't the same as before she died and that's why she's attracted to Spike, and wants to fight that knowledge by physically fighting him, Throughout the whole fight feelings and emotions are battling too. Spike makes the nearly-joking comment about hurting her and when Buffy snaps back, asks, "Afraid to give me the chance?" He seems to be joking, but I think his intent is serious. Buffy reacts violently, and I think Spike is totally serious and intense when he starts to demand, "Afraid I'm gonna--" and Buffy shuts him up by kissing him, defiant of being brought back wrong and not wanting to hear what truth he might know.
I think Spike was going to say something like "save you" or "love you". Is Buffy afraid, not that he's going to hurt her, but that he could love her, which means eventually hurting her to Buffy. Or that he could care enough and want to save her when her friends are barely noticing or involved in their own stuff to really know how much she's going through. She can't let it be Spike who saves her or knows her so well. She's afraid what a soulless monster could feel and what he could do when she might be feeling something for him. Before this ep, Spike was her solace but one she could take for granted because of the chip, but now...
So, knowing most people disagree, I think Spike wasn't going to say 'hurt you' but the idea of 'love you' or 'save you'.
I do remember what I said. The promise. To protect her. If I had done that... even if I didn't make it... you wouldn't have had to jump. But I want you to know that I did save you. Not when it counted, of course, but after that. Every night after that. I'd see it all again. Do something different. Faster or more clever, you know? Dozens of times, lots of different ways...
Every night I save you.
Good question!
I agree with Scarlett and others about the gift. "and that's more than I could have hoped for."
As for smashed, I don't think it's "afraid I'm going to hurt you" because they've already exchanged on "hurt". I think it's more like "afraid I'm going to get to you" -- i.e. matter enough to her to be able to hurt her emotionally. Basically it's in the same direction, but it advances the idea of hurt a bit (she's afraid she cares enough to be hurt by him) which seems more likely (dialogue in Buffy almost never repeats a point without advancing in some direction). It also makes sense since he's going to assume that based on what happens next he IS getting to her.
I agree with Scarlett and others about the gift. "and that's more than I could have hoped for."
As for smashed, I don't think it's "afraid I'm going to hurt you" because they've already exchanged on "hurt". I think it's more like "afraid I'm going to get to you" -- i.e. matter enough to her to be able to hurt her emotionally. Basically it's in the same direction, but it advances the idea of hurt a bit (she's afraid she cares enough to be hurt by him) which seems more likely (dialogue in Buffy almost never repeats a point without advancing in some direction). It also makes sense since he's going to assume that based on what happens next he IS getting to her.
Jan 04 2009 08:57 pm #15Scarlet Ibis
Slayme--it's cool
I think Spike was going to say something like "save you" or "love you".
While I don't agree, I do think "save you" is an interesting position. Throughout the duration of the season, is Buffy rejecting being saved, or simply the attempt on Spike's part? A bit of both?
I don't think "love you," simply because Spike isn't going to love to her ( "Afraid I'm gonna love you?" ) only because he already does, has for quite some time, and she knows that.
I could also see the "get to you" ending as Maggie suggested, though I'm sticking to the reiteration of "hurt you" as being most likely, because of the serious tone Spike takes.
I think Spike was going to say something like "save you" or "love you".
While I don't agree, I do think "save you" is an interesting position. Throughout the duration of the season, is Buffy rejecting being saved, or simply the attempt on Spike's part? A bit of both?
I don't think "love you," simply because Spike isn't going to love to her ( "Afraid I'm gonna love you?" ) only because he already does, has for quite some time, and she knows that.
I could also see the "get to you" ending as Maggie suggested, though I'm sticking to the reiteration of "hurt you" as being most likely, because of the serious tone Spike takes.
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Jan 06 2009 02:48 am #16Spikez_tart
I think Spike wasn't going to say 'hurt you' but the idea of 'love you' or 'save you'. - This is good too ELD. Both sentence fragments are BTVS at its best - you can take one sentence and go 14 different ways. Good writing trick, too.
If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Jan 06 2009 06:03 pm #17Guest
Guest
I've read this thread and I don't usually add my comments to forums...I'm more of a lurker but I was curious as to what would you say to this.
I've actually seen dailies of the smashed and they repeated each scene few times and in this particular one, right before Sarah kissed James, and wasn't quick enough, he almost said the whole phrase, and it sounded like this..."Afraid I'm gonna ki...?"
So in my opinion it was probably meant to be "Afraid I'm gonna kill you?"....cause I think they were both pretty much hell bent on beating each other into bloody pulps, and Spike DID look pretty surpised when Buffy kissed him. I don't think he expected this turn of events...he's just probably wanted to show her hes not as "toothless as she thought"...which he actually told her, right before the fight broke out...he didn't want to kill her, after all he loves her, he just probably wanted to earn a smidgeon of respect from her, to show her he's her equal and that she can't keep shutting him out every time she doesn't want to listen to what he has to say...which she did anyway! Also it might have been meant as "Afraid I'm gonna kiss you?", but I don't think that's the case!!
I've actually seen dailies of the smashed and they repeated each scene few times and in this particular one, right before Sarah kissed James, and wasn't quick enough, he almost said the whole phrase, and it sounded like this..."Afraid I'm gonna ki...?"
So in my opinion it was probably meant to be "Afraid I'm gonna kill you?"....cause I think they were both pretty much hell bent on beating each other into bloody pulps, and Spike DID look pretty surpised when Buffy kissed him. I don't think he expected this turn of events...he's just probably wanted to show her hes not as "toothless as she thought"...which he actually told her, right before the fight broke out...he didn't want to kill her, after all he loves her, he just probably wanted to earn a smidgeon of respect from her, to show her he's her equal and that she can't keep shutting him out every time she doesn't want to listen to what he has to say...which she did anyway! Also it might have been meant as "Afraid I'm gonna kiss you?", but I don't think that's the case!!
right before Sarah kissed James, and wasn't quick enough, he almost said the whole phrase, and it sounded like this..."Afraid I'm gonna ki...?"
Well, for what it's worth, I checked the shooting script, and it cuts off with "Afraid I'm gonna -" so it's not like there was a whole line of dialogue there. Whatever sound James made is probably just him completing the line in his head, because he has to keep talking until she interrupts him.
I don't think he was going to say, "Afraid I'm gonna kill you?" though, because as others have pointed out, he seems pretty serious when he says it, and I don't think he believes Buffy's really afraid of that. If she were, wouldn't she have, I dunno, tried to kill him? They are indeed beating each other to bloody pulps, but never once does Buffy pull out a stake (or even grab a makeshift piece of wood), nor does she look for means to behead Spike or set him on fire.
It wouldn't be unreasonable if she were trying to kill him, since for all she knows the chip doesn't work at all and he was lying to her. But Buffy seems to have taken Spike at his word that the chip only works on her, and they're both using this fight as a way to work off their aggression.
Also, it's pretty clear that Spike's not trying to kill her, since he never even vamps out, let alone tries to bite her. (Plus, as he reiterates in this very scene, he's in love with her, so of course he wouldn't want to kill her.) There's no reason for her to be afraid of that... so why would Spike bother to ask?
Well, for what it's worth, I checked the shooting script, and it cuts off with "Afraid I'm gonna -" so it's not like there was a whole line of dialogue there. Whatever sound James made is probably just him completing the line in his head, because he has to keep talking until she interrupts him.
I don't think he was going to say, "Afraid I'm gonna kill you?" though, because as others have pointed out, he seems pretty serious when he says it, and I don't think he believes Buffy's really afraid of that. If she were, wouldn't she have, I dunno, tried to kill him? They are indeed beating each other to bloody pulps, but never once does Buffy pull out a stake (or even grab a makeshift piece of wood), nor does she look for means to behead Spike or set him on fire.
It wouldn't be unreasonable if she were trying to kill him, since for all she knows the chip doesn't work at all and he was lying to her. But Buffy seems to have taken Spike at his word that the chip only works on her, and they're both using this fight as a way to work off their aggression.
Also, it's pretty clear that Spike's not trying to kill her, since he never even vamps out, let alone tries to bite her. (Plus, as he reiterates in this very scene, he's in love with her, so of course he wouldn't want to kill her.) There's no reason for her to be afraid of that... so why would Spike bother to ask?
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Jan 06 2009 09:50 pm #19Scarlet Ibis
I don't think he was going to say, "Afraid I'm gonna kill you?" though, because as others have pointed out, he seems pretty serious when he says it, and I don't think he believes Buffy's really afraid of that. If she were, wouldn't she have, I dunno, tried to kill him? They are indeed beating each other to bloody pulps, but never once does Buffy pull out a stake (or even grab a makeshift piece of wood), nor does she look for means to behead Spike or set him on fire.
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Also, she wasn't all business as if it were the fight of her life either, and neither was he. Too conversational on both ends. We've seen them try to kill each other for real before, and this was totally not it.
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Also, she wasn't all business as if it were the fight of her life either, and neither was he. Too conversational on both ends. We've seen them try to kill each other for real before, and this was totally not it.
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Eowyn -
could you please post your link for "shooting scripts" - the link that shows up for me no longers takes me to an active site - thanks for your help -
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Jan 06 2009 11:14 pm #21Guest
Guest
I've never thought about this either... but given what the lurker said and the snogging Buffy denied she'll ever do again (at the start of the ep), couldn't the line be "Afraid I'm gonna kiss you?" ? Sure, JM coulda been just completing the line in his head, but wouldn't you have to know what the writers really had in mind so you could sell it properly until you were cut off? Cos when you're delivering a line, even if it's just a bit of a line, you still need to have a motivation, and JM's *so* that committed...
Saying "Afraid I'm gonna kiss you?" would be confronting her with her tongue-wrestle-me-twice-then-totally-backtrack behaviour (which is of course exactly the same 180 she does after TEH SEX). Also, both of the previous times she's kissed *him* (I think we can safely assume that's what happens at the end of Tabula Rasa) and he's been the recipient - what if he, newly-emancipated now, were to kiss *her*? That would be what the line would mean - 'what if *I* take the power?', in deciding both whether they'll kiss and when things will go there - right now in the middle of fighty-time if he says so (remember it's only fighty-time cos that's what she decided - she hit him first). It would also suggest that he knows - and knows that she knows - that she won't be all reserve-girl once they're kissing, that her desire for him would rush to the surface and, no matter what she wants to want, she wouldn't fight him at all. To be threatening her with all that, and then not even be able to finish the sentence before she takes complete control again - no wonder he's surprised! (although, typically, he adapts fast ;-D) Spike *always* underestimates Buffy; his Big Bad persona is all cocky posturing, and he often thinks that because he has insight into her he can guess or even understand what course of action she'll take. But he's doesn't actually comprehend the complete Buff - although he does want to, points for my Blondiebear there. She's just --- more than any woman he's ever met or been with or can even really conceive of, I think, and that's actually a comment about not subscribing to patriarchy, and extraordinary women who just don't consider compromising or pretending to be less so that they fit into male-figured reality. (I've seen that in RL - I'm in the awkward position of being intelllectually, emotionally and socially-skilled , charismatic, vivid, pretty, funny and quick-witted, as well as being about 6' tall, freakishly strong and very well co-ordinated, and I seem to be either completely ignored or put on a ridiculous pedestal by men. None of them actually just manage to relate to me, and I've formulated the theory that it's because I'm just a bit too 'much' for most of 'em - none of them can see where I could possibly need them. And they're right - I don't need them. Need is not the reason to be with someone; love and want are the only good reasons: because you love each other and both want to be together. Anythig else is feeding into dysfunction by compromising the strength of one or both if you. But doesn't it seem that some men can't love you (or even interact with you) if you won't need them (or flatter them)? I'm sure every smart, independent woman out there knows this scenario, and I digress. Boy is *this* ever the audience writing the meaning of the art!) Anyhoo, this follows through for me cos, in line with all the Buffy-a-law-unto-herself-ness, by late S7 Spike's finally accepting that she won't ever need him - "they fight [their life-battles] alone" - and its his decision to keep being there anyway that eventually wins her over. [SCHMOOP ;-D.] AND I think it was written so that his giving up of that hope of being bloody needed, the one thing that would let him concentrate on fixing himself and let it finally work between them from her perspective, was the thing that also made him give up the hope of it ever working out and make the decision to go down with the hellmouth! That bloody bastarding Whedon! He's so good I wanna punch him in the nuts. Writing a male character that can't handle a life where they're not somehow somebody's hero... how'd he do that, being a male? Most of them seem to have no idea they do it, or that it's destructive, and that it might behoove them not to. But then I may be generalising - I *am* N.Irish and they're all posturing idiots here.
Sorry, again I've taken a specifically-themed thread and run away with it. I promise to try and stop rambling when I post here *is contrite*
yahatedparis
Saying "Afraid I'm gonna kiss you?" would be confronting her with her tongue-wrestle-me-twice-then-totally-backtrack behaviour (which is of course exactly the same 180 she does after TEH SEX). Also, both of the previous times she's kissed *him* (I think we can safely assume that's what happens at the end of Tabula Rasa) and he's been the recipient - what if he, newly-emancipated now, were to kiss *her*? That would be what the line would mean - 'what if *I* take the power?', in deciding both whether they'll kiss and when things will go there - right now in the middle of fighty-time if he says so (remember it's only fighty-time cos that's what she decided - she hit him first). It would also suggest that he knows - and knows that she knows - that she won't be all reserve-girl once they're kissing, that her desire for him would rush to the surface and, no matter what she wants to want, she wouldn't fight him at all. To be threatening her with all that, and then not even be able to finish the sentence before she takes complete control again - no wonder he's surprised! (although, typically, he adapts fast ;-D) Spike *always* underestimates Buffy; his Big Bad persona is all cocky posturing, and he often thinks that because he has insight into her he can guess or even understand what course of action she'll take. But he's doesn't actually comprehend the complete Buff - although he does want to, points for my Blondiebear there. She's just --- more than any woman he's ever met or been with or can even really conceive of, I think, and that's actually a comment about not subscribing to patriarchy, and extraordinary women who just don't consider compromising or pretending to be less so that they fit into male-figured reality. (I've seen that in RL - I'm in the awkward position of being intelllectually, emotionally and socially-skilled , charismatic, vivid, pretty, funny and quick-witted, as well as being about 6' tall, freakishly strong and very well co-ordinated, and I seem to be either completely ignored or put on a ridiculous pedestal by men. None of them actually just manage to relate to me, and I've formulated the theory that it's because I'm just a bit too 'much' for most of 'em - none of them can see where I could possibly need them. And they're right - I don't need them. Need is not the reason to be with someone; love and want are the only good reasons: because you love each other and both want to be together. Anythig else is feeding into dysfunction by compromising the strength of one or both if you. But doesn't it seem that some men can't love you (or even interact with you) if you won't need them (or flatter them)? I'm sure every smart, independent woman out there knows this scenario, and I digress. Boy is *this* ever the audience writing the meaning of the art!) Anyhoo, this follows through for me cos, in line with all the Buffy-a-law-unto-herself-ness, by late S7 Spike's finally accepting that she won't ever need him - "they fight [their life-battles] alone" - and its his decision to keep being there anyway that eventually wins her over. [SCHMOOP ;-D.] AND I think it was written so that his giving up of that hope of being bloody needed, the one thing that would let him concentrate on fixing himself and let it finally work between them from her perspective, was the thing that also made him give up the hope of it ever working out and make the decision to go down with the hellmouth! That bloody bastarding Whedon! He's so good I wanna punch him in the nuts. Writing a male character that can't handle a life where they're not somehow somebody's hero... how'd he do that, being a male? Most of them seem to have no idea they do it, or that it's destructive, and that it might behoove them not to. But then I may be generalising - I *am* N.Irish and they're all posturing idiots here.
Sorry, again I've taken a specifically-themed thread and run away with it. I promise to try and stop rambling when I post here *is contrite*
yahatedparis
Jan 06 2009 11:33 pm #23Scarlet Ibis
It would also suggest that he knows - and knows that she knows - that she won't be all reserve-girl once they're kissing, that her desire for him would rush to the surface and, no matter what she wants to want, she wouldn't fight him at all. To be threatening her with all that, and then not even be able to finish the sentence before she takes complete control again
This too makes sense--Buffy wanted to keep the control on her end, and she does by kissing him first (and the rest of the duration of their relationship). If it was going to happen, it had to happen on her terms.
by late S7 Spike's finally accepting that she won't ever need him
I don't think Spike ever thought she needed him, other than to be there--the whole "you talk to me because you can't talk to them" deal. He'd convinced himself that she loved him and was in denial about it, but I don't think he thought she needed him.
Writing a male character that can't handle a life where they're not somehow somebody's hero..
By doing the whole self sacrifice thing is exactly what made him hero. But neither of those are the reasons he did it--not to be a hero, and not because Buffy didn't need him (at the very least, she told him she wasn't ready for him not to be there, whatever the hell that means), but to save her--to finish the job, which is what he says on Ats s5. (I think he said, "I threw myself on the proverbial fire for love and all the right reasons, and what do I get?" )
Also yahatedparis, nice to have another female coming in at six feet, and "Arrested Development the Movie" is coming out later this year! GENE PARMASEAN!
ETA: The exact quote is in "Just Rewards": ...and here I save the world, throw myself onto the proverbial hand grenade for love, honor, and all the right reasons, and what do I get?
Earlier, however, he mentions not giving a piss about atonement or destiny, so it wasn't about that either.
This too makes sense--Buffy wanted to keep the control on her end, and she does by kissing him first (and the rest of the duration of their relationship). If it was going to happen, it had to happen on her terms.
by late S7 Spike's finally accepting that she won't ever need him
I don't think Spike ever thought she needed him, other than to be there--the whole "you talk to me because you can't talk to them" deal. He'd convinced himself that she loved him and was in denial about it, but I don't think he thought she needed him.
Writing a male character that can't handle a life where they're not somehow somebody's hero..
By doing the whole self sacrifice thing is exactly what made him hero. But neither of those are the reasons he did it--not to be a hero, and not because Buffy didn't need him (at the very least, she told him she wasn't ready for him not to be there, whatever the hell that means), but to save her--to finish the job, which is what he says on Ats s5. (I think he said, "I threw myself on the proverbial fire for love and all the right reasons, and what do I get?" )
Also yahatedparis, nice to have another female coming in at six feet, and "Arrested Development the Movie" is coming out later this year! GENE PARMASEAN!
ETA: The exact quote is in "Just Rewards": ...and here I save the world, throw myself onto the proverbial hand grenade for love, honor, and all the right reasons, and what do I get?
Earlier, however, he mentions not giving a piss about atonement or destiny, so it wasn't about that either.
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Jan 07 2009 12:15 am #24Guest
Guest
Do any of you have the DVDs of the "Smashed" dailies? At the very end of one of them, the screen goes black and the words "Wild Track" come up, and you hear James say the line "Afraid I'm gonna kiss you?". I don't think it was ever actually filmed with him finishing the line, and it's not in the script, but that's how the line would have gone if Spike had finished the sentence. Sorry, I can't remember which of the "Smashed" discs it's on, I was just lurking here and saw the discussion.
Jan 07 2009 12:17 am #25Scarlet Ibis
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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nmcil - I use buffyworld.com. They have both transcript and shooting script for Buffy episodes, but only transcripts for Angel eps.
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
in line with all the Buffy-a-law-unto-herself-ness, by late S7 Spike's finally accepting that she won't ever need him - "they fight [their life-battles] alone" - and its his decision to keep being there anyway that eventually wins her over. [SCHMOOP ;-D.] AND I think it was written so that his giving up of that hope of being bloody needed, the one thing that would let him concentrate on fixing himself and let it finally work between them from her perspective, was the thing that also made him give up the hope of it ever working out and make the decision to go down with the hellmouth! That bloody bastarding Whedon! He's so good I wanna punch him in the nuts. Writing a male character that can't handle a life where they're not somehow somebody's hero... how'd he do that, being a male? Most of them seem to have no idea they do it, or that it's destructive, and that it might behoove them not to. But then I may be generalising - I *am* N.Irish and they're all posturing idiots here.
The thing is that they actually don't fight their battles alone - at least not in the pivotal moments of transformation - even in the horrors of Season Six darkness, Spike plays a very important part in her life and she also in his - Together they both live through both the destructive and positive faces of their relationship. Just like bringing back Riley plays as the metaphor of her past and "love fantasy" and final motivation for breaking with Spike, the ultimate action and consequence is also the pivotal transforming moment for Spike in "Seeing Red" and his journey to Africa. For me, I see Buffy and Spike as connected in their dark days of Season Six, both in a state of "need" and that very dark need and relationship as the prime transforming force for their resurrection in Season Seven. But I do think that Spike is moved by his love for this woman - but I think that it is a deep romantic love not just a love that is based on an emotional need. The greatest example of this love, in my opinion, is his words to her during their brutal confrontation in "Dead Things." Spike may not fully understand her motivation and need to assume the responsibility for Katrina's death - which was so complex, but he understands that she is falling apart emotionally and offers himself as a sacrifice for her rage and brutal need to sublimate all pour out all her desperation. I am not making a judgement on any side of "good or bad" for how he chose to express his love and concern for her, only offer this as, from my perspective, his great love for Buffy. Spike tries and fails to save her from herself - but I don't think he fails in his love. It is Buffy who is failing in her love and emotional life at this point and who is very much in a state of "need."
I think that when Spike said that line about Slayers always fight alone (huge paraphrase) he is thinking not so much about his being needed, but as an expression of their relationship and his love - perhaps more with a bittersweet understanding of a potentially wonderful, deep and mature love that was lost to both of them.
In Season Seven, ultimately I see them as moving through paths of co-dependence and than ultimate equals. I never had the sense that Spike is not her equal in their finale battle and in his final act of self sacrifice. For me it was as equally for himself and his newly created man, as it was for love of Buffy - They were Equal Champions and Warriors.
NICE POST -
The thing is that they actually don't fight their battles alone - at least not in the pivotal moments of transformation - even in the horrors of Season Six darkness, Spike plays a very important part in her life and she also in his - Together they both live through both the destructive and positive faces of their relationship. Just like bringing back Riley plays as the metaphor of her past and "love fantasy" and final motivation for breaking with Spike, the ultimate action and consequence is also the pivotal transforming moment for Spike in "Seeing Red" and his journey to Africa. For me, I see Buffy and Spike as connected in their dark days of Season Six, both in a state of "need" and that very dark need and relationship as the prime transforming force for their resurrection in Season Seven. But I do think that Spike is moved by his love for this woman - but I think that it is a deep romantic love not just a love that is based on an emotional need. The greatest example of this love, in my opinion, is his words to her during their brutal confrontation in "Dead Things." Spike may not fully understand her motivation and need to assume the responsibility for Katrina's death - which was so complex, but he understands that she is falling apart emotionally and offers himself as a sacrifice for her rage and brutal need to sublimate all pour out all her desperation. I am not making a judgement on any side of "good or bad" for how he chose to express his love and concern for her, only offer this as, from my perspective, his great love for Buffy. Spike tries and fails to save her from herself - but I don't think he fails in his love. It is Buffy who is failing in her love and emotional life at this point and who is very much in a state of "need."
I think that when Spike said that line about Slayers always fight alone (huge paraphrase) he is thinking not so much about his being needed, but as an expression of their relationship and his love - perhaps more with a bittersweet understanding of a potentially wonderful, deep and mature love that was lost to both of them.
In Season Seven, ultimately I see them as moving through paths of co-dependence and than ultimate equals. I never had the sense that Spike is not her equal in their finale battle and in his final act of self sacrifice. For me it was as equally for himself and his newly created man, as it was for love of Buffy - They were Equal Champions and Warriors.
NICE POST -
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
thaks for the Transcripts Link -
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Jan 15 2009 07:27 pm #29Guest
Guest
Spike tries and fails to save her from herself - but I don't think he fails in his love. It is Buffy who is failing in her love and emotional life at this point and who is very much in a state of "need."
That makes sense and I agree.
I think that when Spike said that line about Slayers always fight alone (huge paraphrase) he is thinking not so much about his being needed
I'm guessing this is the quote from LMPTM--what he says to Robin? That had no bearing on his relationship with Buffy, but was a commentary on slayers in general, and in a sense it is, or was true.
They were Equal Champions and Warriors.
Slayers aren't actually champions...
That makes sense and I agree.
I think that when Spike said that line about Slayers always fight alone (huge paraphrase) he is thinking not so much about his being needed
I'm guessing this is the quote from LMPTM--what he says to Robin? That had no bearing on his relationship with Buffy, but was a commentary on slayers in general, and in a sense it is, or was true.
They were Equal Champions and Warriors.
Slayers aren't actually champions...
Slayers aren't actually champions...
Not being technical in the phrases used in the series - thinking of champions in general use -
Not being technical in the phrases used in the series - thinking of champions in general use -
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Jan 16 2009 01:15 am #31Spikez_tart
Here's the lines from LMPTM:
SPIKE
I know slayers. (throws Robin against the wall) No matter how many people they've got around them, they fight alone. Life of the chosen one. (Robin appears injured) The rest of us be damned. Your mother was no different.
ROBIN
(not moving, choking a bit) No, she loved me.
SPIKE
But not enough to quit, though, was it? Not enough to walk away... for you.
I think it does relate to Spike's relationship with Buffy - she doesn't really share the burden of being a Slayer with him, and while she does frequently join forces with others, she is still alone with the responsibility and the day to day grind and danger. Spike is in a better position to accept Buffy's attitude (as he accepts her strength) and not feel hurt by it. It would be quite a different thing for a four or five year old child to accept.
If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Jan 16 2009 03:03 am #32Scarlet Ibis
I think it does relate to Spike's relationship with Buffy
I think he definitely utilized info from his relationship with Buffy, cause how could he not? But it was something Spike had known before--at least with Nikki. She'd known that Spike was gunning for her, and didn't ask for help from the Council, her Watcher, or whoever. She decided to fight him alone, even though she knew he had taken the life of one slayer already, and could have asked for some kind of help. But the mission, for a slayer, came first, and the mission she felt was hers alone.
I think he definitely utilized info from his relationship with Buffy, cause how could he not? But it was something Spike had known before--at least with Nikki. She'd known that Spike was gunning for her, and didn't ask for help from the Council, her Watcher, or whoever. She decided to fight him alone, even though she knew he had taken the life of one slayer already, and could have asked for some kind of help. But the mission, for a slayer, came first, and the mission she felt was hers alone.
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Dec 03 2009 11:21 pm #33bec
Guest
I was just reading a pretty cool review of Becoming Pt. 2 on a site no longer updated. Buffy says that she has nothing left to lose, and as she's walking away, Whistler says, "Wrong, kid. You've got one more thing." The reviewer then writes that this last thing of Buffy's is, of course, Angel.
Huh?
I knew that I hadn't considered this option before, so maybe that's why I'm having trouble believing that's what Whistler was referring to. Maybe he meant the idea of her Angel, the man she loved, as being truly gone and she only had to deal with Angelus. Foreshadowing that her beloved souled Angel was the one she would have to kill in the end, knowingly and permanently and with a choice, different from 'killing' him by breaking the curse.
We know Buffy loses her sister slayer, her friends, her home and mother, her life at school, and previously her life as a girl in love without a horrible duty forcing her to abandon her heart. What do you guys think the "one last thing" Whistler mentioned was?
Huh?
I knew that I hadn't considered this option before, so maybe that's why I'm having trouble believing that's what Whistler was referring to. Maybe he meant the idea of her Angel, the man she loved, as being truly gone and she only had to deal with Angelus. Foreshadowing that her beloved souled Angel was the one she would have to kill in the end, knowingly and permanently and with a choice, different from 'killing' him by breaking the curse.
We know Buffy loses her sister slayer, her friends, her home and mother, her life at school, and previously her life as a girl in love without a horrible duty forcing her to abandon her heart. What do you guys think the "one last thing" Whistler mentioned was?
Dec 04 2009 12:22 am #34Scarlet Ibis
What do you guys think the "one last thing" Whistler mentioned was?
Huh. Well, I never really thought too much about it--her life, perhaps, should she lose, but...having him mean Angel does make sense. Angel was never really gone (technically)--his soul was in the ether somewhere. But Buffy had accepted that he was never coming back, so why worry about it? So to have him come back at that last moment, knowing that she could do nothing but send him to a Hell dimension unless she allowed the entire world to be sucked into it instead, was yes, losing him all over again. The first time was accidental, but this time was purposely done, but with no other choice. And perhaps in that, she also lost her last shred of innocence--having to essentially kill a loved one. Pretty sucky.
Huh. Well, I never really thought too much about it--her life, perhaps, should she lose, but...having him mean Angel does make sense. Angel was never really gone (technically)--his soul was in the ether somewhere. But Buffy had accepted that he was never coming back, so why worry about it? So to have him come back at that last moment, knowing that she could do nothing but send him to a Hell dimension unless she allowed the entire world to be sucked into it instead, was yes, losing him all over again. The first time was accidental, but this time was purposely done, but with no other choice. And perhaps in that, she also lost her last shred of innocence--having to essentially kill a loved one. Pretty sucky.
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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That is why these finale episodes are titled "Becoming" - they are the final trial and rite of passage for Buffy into her full capacity and status as warrior and hero/heroine - the ultimate test of sacrifice of private life for the better good and for the common well being of the entire world or tribe.
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Dec 04 2009 02:16 am #36Ellen
Guest
I always connected that line to the next episode when Angel asks Buffy what's left without her weapons, friends, or hope. Buffy answers "Me." and finds the strength to stop him. But would that mean what left for her to lose is her confidence in herself? Her belief in what she's doing is right and the strength to carry it through? Or that what's left to her is being the Slayer and fighting, not the heart-wounded girl? Any of these things seem to be lost by the end of the episode when she runs away.
I do wonder if Whistler knew or had hints of future events that Buffy would lose what was left to her, or if his remark was coincidence made up by the writers to make the situation seem more dramatic.
I do wonder if Whistler knew or had hints of future events that Buffy would lose what was left to her, or if his remark was coincidence made up by the writers to make the situation seem more dramatic.
Dec 04 2009 11:21 am #37CM
Guest
Whistler worked for the PTBs and always seemed like he knew more than he was telling, so yeah.....I think he knew what could/would happen.
Just saw those eps today, as my roomie is going through the series again.
Just saw those eps today, as my roomie is going through the series again.
Dec 04 2009 11:22 am #38CM
Guest
Whistler worked for the PTBs and always seemed like he knew more than he was telling, so yeah.....I think he knew what could/would happen.
Just saw those eps today, as my roomie is going through the series again.
Just saw those eps today, as my roomie is going through the series again.
Yeah, the way Whistler says the line, it sounds like he knows what he's talking about, like perhaps he even knows how this fight is going to go. Buffy may be thinking she's already lost Angel, because he lost his soul and turned evil - but she doesn't know he's going to get it back and she'll have to kill him. She's going to lose Angel all over again.
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
In some ways Buffy having to kill Angel/Angelus could be seen as part of her choices with Faith and her attempts to cure Angel by the sacrifice of Faith. Having to send Angel/Angelus with his soul back makes a powerful metaphor for Buffy gutting her own heart, spirit and life. From my perspective, which is almost always from metaphor, this makes for an excellent connection, both emotionally and as metaphor. How might Faith have put it - pay back's a bitch.
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
This is why I am so "hooked" on this show (or any show Joss does). While he seems to not be able to let love between two people ever exist for long (the shocking death of Wash in Serenity being the strongest example), I'm not going to analyze that aspect of Joss's own life and personality. My point is simply that he created his shows, especially BtVS and Dollhouse, to be like an onion. You can simply look at the surface and see an onion, or you can begin to peel it and find layer upon layer of depth and meaning. I think this is why you find so many really intelligent, creative, skilled, educated people are still fans of the show so many years after it went off the air. We are finding there are still layers left to peel and discuss!
Yahatedparis, your comments really resonated with me. The idea of being together because of love and want as healthy vs. being together out of need as dysfunctional is one I really want to sit down and think about--I know people in unhealthy relationships, and this might explain a lot of it. I hope you'll stay active in the forums; you have some good insights. I also think your idea that Spike was going to say, "Afraid I'm gonna kiss you?" makes a lot of sense since she seemed more spooked by their earlier kisses than she did by the idea he wanted to kill her back in season 2. Whether it was in her personality because she was a slayer or just part of the human side of Buffy, after Angel turned into Angelus, she always shyed away from anything that might make her emotionally vulnerable. (Didn't Riley leave because she always had to be the strong one?)
There are DVDs of the dailies for Smashed and other episodes? Cool! Where did you get them?
Yahatedparis, your comments really resonated with me. The idea of being together because of love and want as healthy vs. being together out of need as dysfunctional is one I really want to sit down and think about--I know people in unhealthy relationships, and this might explain a lot of it. I hope you'll stay active in the forums; you have some good insights. I also think your idea that Spike was going to say, "Afraid I'm gonna kiss you?" makes a lot of sense since she seemed more spooked by their earlier kisses than she did by the idea he wanted to kill her back in season 2. Whether it was in her personality because she was a slayer or just part of the human side of Buffy, after Angel turned into Angelus, she always shyed away from anything that might make her emotionally vulnerable. (Didn't Riley leave because she always had to be the strong one?)
There are DVDs of the dailies for Smashed and other episodes? Cool! Where did you get them?
Off Topic: Speaking of Riley, did any of you see Mark Blucas as the guest star on Castle last night? I haven't seen him on anything for several years and thought he'd given up acting.
Dec 08 2009 10:01 pm #43TammyDevil666
Nope, he's still around, done a few movies here and there. I thought he was great in "Castle" last night, and he was in an episode of "Lie to Me" not too long ago, a week after James Marsters appeared on the show. I so wish they would have been on the same episode.
When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you, and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy.
Dec 09 2009 01:35 am #44CM
Guest
Marc's IMDB list just for this year:
- Knight & Day (2010) (filming)
- "Castle" .... Jeremy Preswick (1 episode, 2009)
- The Fifth Bullet (2009) TV episode .... Jeremy Preswick - "Lie to Me" .... Jack Rader (1 episode, 2009)
- Control Factor (2009) TV episode .... Jack Rader - Mother and Child (2009) .... Steven
- Stuntmen (2009) .... Eligh Supreme
- Stay Cool (2009) .... Brad Nelson
- Deadline (2009/I) .... David Woods
- See Kate Run (2009) (TV) .... Jack Brookshire
It was really a nice surprise to see him on Castle - he also played the husband to one of the feature women characters in The Jane Austen Book Club - hope that is the correct title.
When was JM on "Lie To Me" - I miss so many things now that I don't get my e-mail from that Whedon Info site. I can't find anyway to subscribe again after I inadvertently hit on the wrong icon. If anyone has info or a link on how to subscribe to the Whedon annoucements site, I would very much appreciate any help you can give.
When was JM on "Lie To Me" - I miss so many things now that I don't get my e-mail from that Whedon Info site. I can't find anyway to subscribe again after I inadvertently hit on the wrong icon. If anyone has info or a link on how to subscribe to the Whedon annoucements site, I would very much appreciate any help you can give.
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Dec 09 2009 07:50 am #46CM
Guest
Nmcil, you could sign up for emails from JM's site. www.jamesmarsters.com. They always tell when he has a TV appearance.
Dec 09 2009 07:59 am #47Tammy
Guest
I know that his episode was in October, a week before Marc's, it might be in YouTube or something. I don't watch "Lie to Me," but I had to watch for both of them.
maybe I can watch it on Fancast or even buy the episode on itunes if anyone can give me a good date -
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Dec 10 2009 05:07 am #49Tammy
Guest
October 16, I think it was. I remember it was the day I went to California, so I had to record it.
thanks for the date tammy -
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
:-P
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:(
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:D
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