I am a huge fan of Joss Whedon. I loved Buffy, liked Angel, was fascinated by Firefly, thought Dr Horrible's Sing Along blog was hilarious. i hope people on this forum love Joss like I do, and want to support his latest project, Dollhouse, which is being ignored.

Dollhouse, starring Eliza Dushku, started in February, but you can catch up on missed episodes on Fancast or on Hulu. it airs every Friday at 9/8c on Fox. The first episode was iffy but the second was fascinating and I really liked the third and fourth. Apparently, Eliza says in an interview that the first few episodes were focused on starting, but later she and Joss reached what they'd been aiming for for the show to be. I'd hate to see Dollhouse fail like Firefly did, and I wanted to get the news out to other Whedon works lovers that this show is worth a look. i haven't seen a single commercial for Dollhouse and I hadn't even realized that it was airing!

But remember how Buffy started off as a 'maybe' and I really think we should give this new series a chance. If it has time to grow like Buffy did I'm sure it will be fantastic. Right now I'm already really enjoying the creepy questions raised by the show, the idea that the human spirit can go beyond even the most advanced science, the hints at the deeper plots, and the variety of situations and characters and everything!

I strongly recommend Dollhouse to everyone. Is anybody out there already watching it? or do you have any questions?

Oh, I've known about this show for over a year and I'm really glad that it finally started to air, even though I don't think Fridays are the best night.  I've watched every episode so far and I'm already loving it.  I wouldn't say it's being ignored, the ratings are just not as high as they could be, but they could also be a lot worse.  I think that mostly has to do with the timeslot, I know Dollhouse has a pretty big fanbase.  I already know we're at least going to get 13 episodes, which I hope would be enough time for the show to grow and build an even bigger audience.

Also watching all the episodes. Tonight was a really good story.

CM

It's been advertised all over the place, and I think there were more articles and reviews about that series than any other show in the months before it aired. It's definitely generated a ton of buzz, so I don't think the problem is that no one's heard of it. It's just not generating very good buzz. Most critics aren't giving it good reviews, and many viewers don't think it's lived up to the hype.

I wasn't at all impressed by the pilot, thought the next two episodes got incrementally better, and then last night's episode was the worst of the bunch. I'll give it to episode six, because that's when everyone claims it gets so much better, but I'm not very optimistic.

As with a lot of things to watch in this age, the show is getting a ton of viewings online. At one torrent site, there are over 2000 requests just for one episode.
Like Tammy said, the Friday spot is not the best......Fridays have been known as the death slot ever since viewership changed and primetime programming changed from going all the way to Saturdays.

This show is really about the details, the little nuances......it isn't about what mission Echo gets sent on, but how she reacts to it, and what sticks with her. It's fun to see what she's retaining. Most recently, it's the look of a Picasso face - she drew it in the steam on the mirror.

A lot more bits from the original script(s) made it into this episode.

CM

Wow, seriously?  I thought last night's episode was by far the best one, everyone I've talked to seems to agree.  I'm not sure why you thought it was the worst, especially compared to the third episode, but until the series gets cancelled or whatever happens, I'm not giving up on it.

I loved episode 2. I think "The Most Dangerous Game" aspect was awesome and, I personally believe that it is the episode to beat. I'll admit that I was disappointed with the Pilot episode, but that was only because I gave Joss too much credit for what he was going to cram into the first episode...but after over a year a waiting I was psyched and a bit disappointed. Not nearly enough to give up on it. I enjoyed episode four and I think it was the second best episode. I think once it gets more settled into the arc it'll be something that I get crazy if I miss (like Lost and Bones).

I thought it was the worst in large part because of Eliza Dushku's acting. I really didn't want to spend that much time with Echo in her wiped state. I am still unconvinced that ED can pull off this role - after four episodes it's more clear than ever that she doesn't have the range. The only "personalities" she can pull off are the ones that are Faithlike. When she has to stretch, like with Echo herself or the hostage negotiator in the pilot, she's just not selling it at all. (And it's especially noticeable in comparison to others in the cast like Amy Acker, who's proved to be very versatile in other roles though she doesn't have much to do here, and Dichen Lachman who is incredible at the different personalities - ED could never have sold the shy, nerdy #1 fan Audra from last week's episode, yet DL manages to sell not only her own roles, but also tonight she proved she can play ED when they were both imprinted with the same personality. )

I also didn't want to spend that much time with Topher, because that character really annoys me. I get the sense that this is another situation (t happens frequently with Joss) where he and I have diametrically opposite views of something. I find him incredibly creepy and Warren-like, but Joss seems to think that Topher is quirky and hilarious, judging by the lines he's given, and that doesn't really work for me if Joss doesn't think Topher's a bad guy.

I've had problems with the premise since the pilot - I didn't feel like it was really made clear why people would use the Dollhouse instead of a real expert. It especially threw me in the beginning of this ep with the midwife thing, because that seemed utterly ridiculous. Why on earth would you pay millions of dollars for an imprinted midwife? It's not exactly a high risk operation or something you'd need secrecy for.

It's obvious they realize the need to address this question, because we get throwaway lines about rich people wanting more and security and whatnot, but they've now done three episodes out of four where the crisis is created by a problem with the imprint. That's not leaving a lot of satisfied customers, so how on earth is this business successful?

I don't know if you've read this review of Dollhouse (it was circulating on LJ), but I think it states my issue very well:
the show’s premise is so complicated that it overpowers the program. Buffy’s simplicity was genius: its surface arc was “the blonde girl is not a victim but a savior,” while its metaphoric arc was “high school really is hell.” This simplicity allowed the program to grow in unexpected ways and to expand both on literal and metaphoric levels. Dollhouse’s prolix concept seems to overburden its narrative.
She also makes a good point about not connecting with the characters. I didn't care about the vampires and demons aspect of Buffy; I watched the show because I loved the characters. Dollhouse doesn't have characters I can connect with, because the main character is a different person every week.

Everyone keeps saying that episode six is where it gets good, so I'm hoping that resolves some of these issues, but I'm not holding my breath.

Matter of opinion.

I've always believed Echo's innocence. And it interests me what she's keeping from each imprint, as well as what is left over from Caroline, the real person.  I also really like her handler, Boyd. I don't need Echo to stay Echo for a while to be able to connect with her situation.

Man, reading certain people's opinions online, I keep feeling like I'm the only person who isn't watching "Dollhouse" with TV ADD - it's not that complicated, people! Just watch the dang show. Or, if it's not your cup of tea, then DON'T WATCH, and wish everyone the best. Joss fans are so damn critical of every little minute detail - when they aren't with other new things they try to watch, and I'm so sick of reading it lately.......can't we be adults about this and not tear something down and apart just because it isn't what you want in your own head?!?! 
Geeze, my boyfriend has even noticed how picky Joss fans are, and he's not even online!!!

Joss fans are so damn critical of every little minute detail
I find that while Joss fans may like to nitpick, they generally do it out of love. Look at how much we've discussed and dissected BtVS on this forum and the 90,000 other forums out there - but we're all here because we love the show. However, there's also a pretty high bar for Dollhouse, given that Buffy and Angel (and for some people, Firefly) were high-quality television that, in spite of all the nitpicking, delivered an overall great show that we're still talking about years later. IMO, Dollhouse isn't on that level, but everyone's different.

it's not that complicated, people!

Actually I think it is pretty complicated.  After the pilot, I went back and rewatched the beginning online, and I still can't figure out why Caroline was willing to have herself erased for five years.  What had happened to her that she felt this was the only alternative?  Did I miss something or is Joss leaving that vague on purpose?  Last week the FBI guy mentioned Caroline by name.  Did I miss something about how and why he knows her and is looking for her?  I know what Dollhouse is and what it does.  I just don't understand WHY it was created.  And if all these people know about it and hire its services, why can't a skilled FBI agent find out anything about it?

Don't get me wrong.  I find the show fascinating and will keep watching it.  But I get a bit frustrated because there are so many loose ends...maybe Joss did it on purpose and wants to copy the hit show Lost and make it all mysterious. I hope, however, he will tie it together soon. Diehard Jossverse addicts like us will stick with it, but if he doesn't make it less complicated soon, I'm afraid he'll lose the casual viewers...then bye-bye ratings and bye-bye show.

FBI guy was left an envelope with people to look for, including a file on Caroline. And yes, Caroline's origin is still a secret......I don't expect him to reveal that right away.

A place with that much money coming into it? Easy.....they have friends in high places. Someone in the gov't knows about it, guaranteed, and is protecting it.

I personally have enjoyed all of the episodes and I like the last two best thus far - viewers just have to give the series some time to develop and see where things go -  It's a totally different project, and viewers should try and watch it as its own show - not constantly compare it with The Buffyverse or Angel and Firefly.  Each of these projects had its own magic and power - and I feel certain that given a little time and support by the viewers and Whedon fans, Dollhouse will also become another excellent television series. 

You can watch, and maybe it might help with the support, the episodes on the channel home site -

Herc at AICN says this, this morning:

"Next week brings episode six, the Big Mythology Episode starring the great Patton Oswalt as a lonely Internet zillionaire.

As for tonight’s installment, titled “True Believer”? The themes of kidnapping and visual impairment return for the series’ first Friday the 13th:

Imprinted as a visually impaired woman, Echo must infiltrate a heavily guarded cult in order to rescue a woman held against her will. "

 

Echo remembers Mr. Dominic - really don't like that guy!
Senator is a client, and helps keep them off the radar...as I expected.
Boyd is my hero.
Victor + Sierra - heee! Poor Victor gets wiped because he noticed the pretty girl.
Love seeing Amy have more to do this week.

Ballard.......too late, again, to find Echo/Caroline.

Fox will not be airing the "13th episode" of Dollhouse, as tweeted by @drhorrible and @feliciaday. However, there appears to be some debate about what qualifies as a 13th episode and what qualifies as a season finale. Here's what we've sorted out about the end of Dollhouse...

Brace yourself, guys, because there's going to be math in this story.

Fox the television network ordered 13 episodes of Dollhouse. As everybody knows, they scrapped the original pilot, "Echo." So that is 13 less one, which brings us down to 12. The 12th and final episode that Fox the television network ordered and paid for and will air is called "Omega" and was written and directed by Tim Minear (who has told us he "can't wait" for us to see it). Focused on the Alpha storyline, sources say that "Omega" apparently "closes some doors and opens other ones" and was always intended to be and to effectively serve as the season-one finale. ("Omega" logline, if you're into that kind of thing: "Alpha's reign of terror continues as his obsession with Echo endangers Caroline's survival. Ballard must make a life-changing decision, and one Doll is permanently deactivated while another's shocking past is revealed."

Now, let's go back to the original equation and add in an episode called "Epitaph One." "Echo" the original pilot plus 12 episodes through "Omega" plus "Epitaph One" brings us to a total of 14 episodes.

The 14th episode, "Epitaph One," was produced and paid for by Fox the television studio. It was never ordered, requested or paid for by Fox the television network, and Fox the television network will not be airing "Epitaph One." Working on getting you more details about "Epitaph One," but it's said to be more of a "stand-alone" episode.

(Note: Tim Minear just posted on Whedonesque about "Epitaph One" saying, "Because we scrapped the original pilot—and in fact cannibalized some of its parts for other eps—we really ended up with 12 episodes. But the studio makes DVD and other deals based on the original 13 number. So we created a stand-alone kind of coda episode. Which is the mythical new episode 13. The network had already paid for 13 episodes, and this included the one they agreed to let us scrap for parts. It does not include the one we made to bring the number back up to 13 for the studio side and its obligations. We always knew it would be for the DVD for sure, but we also think Fox should air it because it's awesome."

So, to summarize, Fox the television studio made 14 episodes of Dollhouse, and Fox the television network paid for the 13 that it originally ordered and is airing 12 of them.

A last, and very important, note: According to sources on the network side, the net's not picking up and airing "Epitaph One" has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not they pick up the series for a second season, a situation which, I'm told, is "100 percent in the decision phase." You can obviously believe them or not as you choose, but I take them at their word. I may be a sucker like that.

credit to E!Online for the news.

CM

I am watching but I find this show to be a train wreck and the acting is almost non-existent.  I got spoiled so I know who Alpha is and this is the only thing that has me excited about this series. 

My 'Joss love' pretty much disappeared  by the end of BTVS but this doesn't stop me from checking out a new project.  What tends to unnerve me about a Joss project  though  are  the JW fanatics who seem to blindly LOVE anything connected to him even if it is a mess.  I have been offended by some of the story lines and I feel (since ED is a producer) that ED is using DH to showcase her body.  Granted ED is a fine looking woman but  I prefer acting and good scripts over posing.  I have a friend who has watched and calls this series 'Cathouse'.  I tend to agree.

If you like the show then I am happy for you.  I am disappointed.

I just read someone's comment somewhere saying Joss is having really bad luck with all his cancelled shows--Angel, Firefly, and now Dollhouse.  Really?  Can anyone tell me if it is true that Fox has cancelled it?  Granted that the show tonight only made any sense if you have been watching from the beginning, so it is hard for Dollhouse to pick up new viewers. But it is so mysterious and intriguing that I really want to see where Joss plans to go with it all now that Paul knows Mellie is a spy, Dominic was uncovered as another spy, Sierra, Victor, November are all such neat characters that I want to learn their backstories, and Echo still doing things way beyond what her capabilities should be after being wiped.  I'd hate to think Fox would just leave us hanging.

There has been no mention of cancellation yet, we probably won't know until May if the show gets picked up or not, people just keep jumping to conclusions.  I for one am enjoying the show and hope we get another season of it.  Shows tend to take more time to find an audience, I mean, Buffy certainly didn't hook everyone in the first season.  I know it took me until at least the 2nd to really get into it.

It looks like the 12th episode will be the last. 

Last night's ep was decent....more info.  I liked the fact that Mellie told Paul to look beyond the Dolls and the technology for the real reason behind the DH.  I'm thinking, from the dialogue last night, that the DH is part of a secret gov agency getting info on the high profile and wealthy clients.  They did mention government vs. the private sector regarding the technology.  Perhaps Echo is part of a government agency seeking to destroy the DH and volunteered to be a Doll.  I don't know.... and I don't think JW has enough time before cancellation to let us know.  I do like the fact that this show improved last night but I think JW took too long to get us to this point and prior eps were pretty terrible IMHO.  Alpha makes and appearance next week.

Cancellation will not be decided on until the end of May at upfronts.

The first 5 eps aren't really Joss fault, either. Fox was all up in his bizness for those, thinking they knew how to draw in a mass audience with this vehicle. Fos, whether the network or the movie studio, always do this! They can't leave a project alone, meddling and meddling and screwing things up. Ask fanboys what they think of the Fox movie studio nowadays. Any comic vehicle they want to see hit the screen, they PRAY it won't be produced by Fox.

Last night was by one of the new writers to the Whedonverse, and was quite excellent. DH does very well in DVR numbers, and certainly in torrents. Considering what Fox doesn't have in pilots, and is getting rid of this season, there's room for Dollhouse to stay on another night - and it would do better.

CM

Dollverse.com:

There seems to be some confusion on this point. I reported weeks ago the 13th episode of Dollhouse might not air here on Dollverse. We reported that it definitely wouldn't air a few days ago. And now there's something else to report: the show isn't, in fact, cancelled. There's an ongoing dispute over the final produced episode (number 13), that's a fact, but it doesn't translate as you're totally humped.

So spread the word. Also, it's off air next Friday due to FOX's shitty scheduling. I know that will cause a lot of confusion and cause people to think it's cancelled and stop watching. (See also: shitty scheduling). So spread the word. The only way the show returns for another season is if more people watch.

CM

Duh!  I am soooo slow.  I just got it!  I was thinking about November and wondering where they came up with her name and thinking they're not all named after months because Sierra isn't a month...and it hit me!  November and Sierra are the codes for the alphabet used by pilots and the military.  And I thought about the other names--Victor and Echo, and they are, too!  For example, to make sure they understand the correct letter (like someone saying "v" but you think they said "b" ) they spell it out like this:  Dollhouse would be said as delta-oscar-lima-lima-hotel-oscar-uniform-sierra-echo. 

I worked for the air force for 20 years, so I can't believe I missed this!  Did anyone else pick up on it faster than I did?  Another clever, and subtle Joss-ism!

Um ... yes. Sorry. It hit me a couple of weeks ago when they revealed November's name. One of the other women is named Tango too. She was in last week's episode. But I was wondering about the character Mike. The guys at least seem to have guy names. (Would Foxtrot be a guy or girl name?)

Are there only 26 dolls?

Being a Buffy fan taught me to think about the shows I watch. I figured out the real identity of 'Miss Lonelyhearts' about a half hour before they confirmed it. I don't watch that many shows because it ticks me off when I realize that I'm thinking harder about the plot of the show than most of the writers did.

Did anybody else feel they were rushing last night's episode? They crammed so many plot points and twists into it that it felt rushed and I didn't feel any of the drama. I felt sorry for the person who got sent to the Attic. Considering who that was, I was surprised.

Nah, didn't feel rushed to me.

Yup, they're using the NATO phonetic alphabet. I wrote down the names we know so far a week or 2 ago. Alpha, Echo, Mike, November, Sierra, Tango, and Victor.

That leaves Beta, Charlie, Delta, Foxtrot, Golf, Hotel, India, Juliet, Kilo, Lima, Oscar, Papa, Quebec, Romeo, Uniform, Whiskey, X-ray, Yankee, and Zulu.

CM

Fox announces its '09-'10 schedule on May 18th.

CM

You're absolutely right. If you don't have a Nielson box, tell Fox you want the show to stay. Plenty of people can be watching that Fox never knows about because TV networks still rely on the numbers from that damn box. They get DVR numbers now, thank goodness, and they can count hits on Fox.com's Dollhouse section.

They don't know who watches by torrents, and I have no idea if they get numbers from Hulu, etc.

CM

Dollverse.com has special news:

Going to Comic-Con?

Prepare yourself. All through Comic-Con (San Diego, July) you'll be able to pick up a special, limited edition Dollhouse DVD boxset - a week before it launches.

Numbered. So you get a unique copy.

With a letter from Joss inside.

Going to Comic-Con? I am. Spread the word.

It's 4 DVDs, containing all 12 aired episodes, (the possibly unaired) episode 13, plus the unaired original pilot episode.


Tonight's episode was TOPS!!! Alan Tudyk was brilliant. Jane Espenson was brilliant to write it. Part 2, next week, was written by Tim Minear.
Poor Victor......   And Mr. Dominic made a Whiskey mention......
Wow......everything was just perfect.

CM

I like Dollhouse, and I see a lot of potential for fanfiction for it, but i wish they hadn't tried to explore so many different aspects of the premise at the same time in one season. I, for one, am less interested in Alpha than i am in the fact of Echo. And I do mean Echo, not Caroline. Honestly, I don't even like what I've seen of Caroline. I don't relate to her, don't admire her, don't feel compassion for her. it's Echo and her struggle to become a person who interests me, not trying to force her back into being Caroline in bits and pieces. I prefer seeing Echo learn specific things and grow, with not real memories helping her become someone. I keep liking some episodes where they treat Echo like that, but then they swerve back to Echo being an empty shell so they can set up a new plot for Alpha or try to show Dushku's acting ability as a totally different character. I loved the questions they left us with at the end of Spy in the House of Love, but then they totally forgot about it for that ep Haunted with the dead lady. Echo didn't matter in that one at all. i think I'd have liked Dollhouse better if they spaced out what they wanted to explore more, and led to some resolutions on teh way before switching back and forth.

There are so many aspects to the series which more time taken would have been an improvement - always get to make your viewers be able to connect with the character and their story.   Maybe Joss Whedon and Elisa Dushku felt they needed to get all this in in-case they were not given additional seasons.

This last episode was so violent  - they really brought home just how destructive and violent the entire Dollhouse is - what Victor and Dominic , what do we even call Mr. Dominic now - Mind of Dominic?  Gives me the creeps just thinking about it.   This Alpha character is so mysterious and intriguing -

Wish I could get my hands on one of the Comic-Con DVD sets -

They've had to load a lot into eps 6-12 because Fox had so much influence on 1-5. Fox never trusts a storyteller to know what they're doing......It's incredibly annoying!!!

CM

And the fact that this is pretty much the only season we're gonna get, it really sucks, but the ratings just keep getting worse.  I wish we could have one Joss show that lasts more than one season, but we haven't had that since Angel.

I sorry that many viewers did not like it - I do like it - wish they would get some time to develop the characters and storylines more -

Very disappointed that another Joss Whedo show got such bad air date or that the network or fans did not give the show some time to find what was compelling or how things could be made better -

I know that everyone involved must be extremely disappointed and that Joss Whedon must be disheartened - with his last two shows getting such rough treatment he must be feeling some anger and lots of pain.  Firefly was awesome - I LOVED IT - there is no reason, that I can see why that show did not turn out to be a Great Big Success. 

At least I get to see Nathan Fillion in Castle, which I am going to do right now -

The problem with Joss is that he is so intelligent that he makes very intelligent shows and loses a lot of his audience because of that.  Mainly, however, I think the ratings are going down because the plot is moving so fast that if watchers miss a week or two, they are totally lost and give up on it. (Most people aren't savvy enough to go online and view the episodes they missed.)  ...which is too bad because  I think Dollhouse just gets more and more intriguing! 

And I'd feel so badly for Eliza having both shows she got the lead in cancelled so fast; I thought Tru Calling deserved renewal, too.  And if Dollhouse is cancelled, Joss will be zero for two; do you think he'll get discouraged and give up writing shows and/or networks won't consider him the "golden boy" anymore and give him any more chances?

BIG QUESTION:  (I hope I can sneak it in here since Eliza played both Echo and Faith!)  I watch Castle, too, because I wanted to see Nathan Fillion (Caleb/Malcolm) in his new non-Jossverse role.  Did anyone else hear him say in tonight's episode the line "five by five"?  I thought Joss made up that line for Faith.  Is it a common phrase or could that have been a secret wink to the Jossverse fans from Nathan?

Isn't that like a Military phrase or something?  I don't know, I haven't seen the episode yet, but I'm also really liking Castle.  Another show that hasn't been picked up for another season yet, but I really hope it does.  Nathan's had two failed shows just like Eliza, so I hope this one is given a bigger chance.  As for Dollhouse, no, I don't think Joss will be discouraged at all, and he's definitely not a quitter.  I heard there could possibly be a sequel to Dr. Horrible, so that's something to look forward to.  I have no doubt that he'll keep giving us great entertainment, I just wish others could realize how amazing his shows are like we do.

-Tammy

Five by five is a military phrase, yes. Joss didn't make it up.

FOX still hasn't announced it's decision, so don't count Dollhouse as gone, yet! They do have room on their schedule to keep it.

This is Eliza's tweet from earlier today:

Thanks for all the Twitts/tweets as of today, Dollhouse is NOT cancelled, I'll letcha know as soon as I do about future, nxt wk ep ROCKS imo.A.T., man

Keeping fingers crossed here.

Isn't that like a Military phrase or something? I don't know, I haven't seen the episode yet, but I'm also really liking Castle.

If I remember correctly 5x5 is an air force phrase -

This is horrible news about Castle for me - I have enjoyed watching it very much - the mother character is sometimes annoying, but she does offer a great vehicle for the comedy and spoof.  One thing that I find hard to accept, however I just decide to forget the logic, is the premise of having him so involved in the field work.  I never check on rating numbers, but I thought this was having a success run - show has great lead in.  I like the theme of last night, but the plot device for resolution did not work for me. 

If members want to watch this weeks episode online it might be a very good experiment for the writers and readers  - discuss what worked, what fell short.  We could actually do this with other shows, stand alone episode,  This particular Castle episode, I think would be a good start if members would like to try the experiment.  It does bring in some strong everyday real life problems and the treatment is, I think, would make a good discussion about writing and how the audience might react.  Plus, we would not have all the strong opinions that we have with all the Buffy characters.

Even with what I call "The Curse of Nathan Fillion," Castle's got about 7-10 million viewers per week. I'm not too worried about its future. Shows like castle do extremely well. I'm more worried about Dollhouse and, honestly, The Sarah Connor Chronicles.

It's safe to say The Sarah Connor Chronicles won't be coming back, but I'm still hoping the same won't be said for Dollhouse.  As for Castle, yeah, I heard it was doing pretty well, so that's why I was surprised to hear about the possibility of it not having a second season.

And if Dollhouse is cancelled, Joss will be zero for two
Nah, he'll be two for four - last I checked, Buffy and Angel still count. I think most writer/showrunners in Hollywood would kill for a seven-season series that spawns a five-season spin-off, so even if Joss never has another show picked up, he's still had a pretty successful career, relatively speaking.

And "five by five" is a term from (generally military) radio communications referring to signal quality. Basically, it's the best quality you can have, which is why Faith uses it to say everything's great.

Thanks for solving the myster of "five by five".  It was probably coincidence, but I think I"ll pretend Castle/Nathan Fillion said it anyway as a nod to Faith and Joss Whedon!

I've noticed the name Jed Whedon as a writer of several Dollhouse episodes.  I don't remember Joss's "real" name, but I assume that is it.  The pilot said written by Joss Whedon, so if he is Jed, why is he using that name?  Does anyone know?

Nmcil--I think your idea to use Castle as a sounding board for writers and readers sounds intriguing and worthwhile.  If you want to start a thread for it, I'll join in.

Jed is his brother, he also wrote on Dr. Horrible.  Joss' whole family is basically of writer's, their father used to write for The Golden Girls.

He has two brothers and a sister-in-law that wrote on Dr. Horrible, and brother and SIL write on Dollhouse.

CM

Nmcil--I think your idea to use Castle as a sounding board for writers and readers sounds intriguing and worthwhile. If you want to start a thread for it, I'll join in.

I will check out the online link - there must be one - give our members a chance to watch and start a thread next week - I think this particular episode would be very helpful discussion, particularly for the writers.

here is the link for the episode

http://abc.go.com/primetime/castle/index?pn=episodes#t=132575&d=166803

Write-up on tonight's ep. http://www.aintitcool.com/node/41012

Watch live tonight if you can! They need the numbers. Send an email to Fox with your demo info, too. They need to know what the Nielson boxes can't tell them.

Amazon pre-orders go live tonight.

CM

Dollverse has the script for episode 12 that just aired. Some scenes had to be cut for time.

http://www.dollverse.com/2009/05/script-to-episode-12-omega.html#comments

CM

Surprise: Fox RENEWS 'Dollhouse'
 UPDATED: In a stunning move, sources say Fox has renewed Joss Whedon’s “Dollhouse” for next fall. 

The official announcement will not be made until Monday at the network's upfront presentation, but sources confirm a deal has been struck for another 13 episodes. Fox plans to continue the show on Fridays next fall.

The low-rated series was last seen given up for dead by the media in a field somewhere.

But the show's DVR numbers are huge (averaging a 40% bump), online streaming is strong. It’s a sci-fi show, which tend to bring in strong ancillary revenue such as DVD sales for sister-company studio 20th TV. And it’s said that Fox execs rather like the series, especially the latter half of the season. Besides, a show airing in the fall on Fox is a bit like running in midseason on most networks -- it’s not the network's strongest part of the year and maybe ... maybe ...

All right, fine.

The move is tougher to explain than most, especially based on the show's ratings. A “Dollhouse” pickup is a shock, an underdog comeback that blows away NBC’s will-they-or-won’t-they hand-wringing over “Chuck” (psst, they almost certainly will). In fact, "Dollhouse" might very well be the lowest-rated in-season scripted drama to ever get a renewal on a major broadcast network. Almost certainly if based on where the show concluded -- a 1.0 among adults 18-49.

Basically this is a case of a bunch of minor decision-making factors successfully ganging up on the biggest factor (ratings). In addition to DVD sales, streaming and DVR influences, Fox received some serious budget concessions from 20th TV and Whedon to continue the show, with 20th now shouldering a greater portion of the load.

Another factor was the show's unaired 13th episode, which Whedon shot on a shoestring budget for the "Dollhouse" first season DVD set. Whedon presented it to the network as an example of how "Dollhouse" can achieve a high-quality production with a lesser budget.

The renewal also means Fox is bringing back all three of its freshman dramas for a second season -- "Fringe," "Lie to Me" and "Dollhouse" -- which is a nice boast in challenging year for broadcasters. 

Along with NBC renewing low-rated "Friday Night Lights," and strongly considering modestly performing "Chuck," and the CW stations considering bringing back very weakly rated "Reaper," there's seeming trend this spring toward networks looking beyond live-viewing ratings when contemplating the fate of shows with passionate fanbases that they can monetize in non-traditional ways.

Last year, in the wake of CBS canceling fan favorites "Jericho" and "Moonlight," the sense was that vocal minorities could no longer sway the suits.

This year, cult TV shows have been like creatures in a George Romero movie; you can never trust that they're dead.

CM - SQUEEE!

I'm seeing this everywhere now, it's really awesome, but they seriously need to put it on another night.

-Tammy

I just hope this does not turn out to be a Fans Wish online event - I really hope that this is true - I stayed home every Friday night and watched just to help with the numbers, plus I also watched online - I will also buy the DVD -

I hate they way so many potentially excellent shows are taken off just because the Corp Execs can't see beyond the Rating Numbers - they should already understand how TV viewing has changed -

If streaming video hits really are a big factor with the network deciding a show like Dollhouse might be a success, then I really wish streaming video had been this advanced and prolific at the beginning of the 5th season of Angel.  If it had been, maybe we would have gotten to see Spike for an additional 6th season!  sigh...

It's true, Nmcil. Several entertainment news places have been confirming it with Fox etc.
Yeah, Sensei, I imagine digital proliferation would have been ideal for Angel.......though they'd still have to deal with that nitwit that was in charge at the time. He got fired from the TV division after that following season failed in so many ways.

CM

Yeah, Sensei, I imagine digital proliferation would have been ideal for Angel.......though they'd still have to deal with that nitwit that was in charge at the time. He got fired from the TV division after that following season failed in so many ways.

Um... huh?

Who got fired after what?

The guy in charge of the WB network at the time.

Fantastic ep written by Tim Minear. Come talk.
http://risingstarforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=talk

I was very surprised to see that Dollhouse is still going on! I really like the premise, though I feel trying to handle so many different possibilities to explore instead of choosing one or two is awkward and messes up the flow of the episodes taken together. I still support it because I love how we're seeing the characters deal with everything, grow and evolve and struggle and fall back and feel things. I do think we're glossing over Echo's changes too much, as if they're a matter of fact not being really explained, but I hope that gets better. I encourage other people to watch the show, and I'm impressed by how far Topher's character can go without losing the comedic element I like so much for him.

Especially after this last episode, and seeing the episode from the dvd set that was not shown,  I think things are going to start getting a more interesting from the "big picture" view point.  With the reiteration that the Actives can be used as vessels for people who have died or replacement on a long term use by existing people, it brings a very powerful and compelling theme to the series.  And what about the theme of "responsibility" for criminal behavior? 

I'm glad Melli/November/Madeline came back, even if it was just for that one episode. I liked the contrast between her being completely alright with losing a few years of her life and remembering nothing, feeling nothing, and having her grief over her daughter's death wiped away compared to Echo, who has felt so much and is in pain because of it, but thinks feeling pain is better than having the things that affected you erased as if they didn't matter.

Was anybody else very disturbed by the idea that Echo has now been tainted, she can feel a psychopathic, awful killer inside herself and she knows exactly what he's done and felt as he did it? Is she going to have to fight that, or will she feel violated by having that inside her?

The Dollhouse is getting really interesting, all the characters are having, IMO, good development as are the Actives Assignments - this last one was so creepy - and it would all seem so "over-board" except that we just had the tragic story of that poor young woman that was kidnapped, raped, and completely brutalized come out. 

It would be great to have the BSV members watch either on TV or online and then have some discussions - especially since our Buffyverse discussions seem to be drying up. 

Aside from all the issues of how Echo is violated by having her imprints, what about all the moral and legal implications - for the people that sign up as Actives?  Echo attacked, and presumably killed 3 or 4 women in this episode - how do the laws of murder apply to the person that gave her life over The Dollhouse?  By signing up as Actives, do they bear the same responsibility as accessories to murder? 

Don't you feel a terrible saddness for Victor?  When you first encountered this character, did you ever think that he would turn out to be such a tragic figure?

Fox will air all 13 eps of the initial season 2 order. And ratings were up a little last episode.

Nmcl, what episode are you talking about?

I watched all of season one a while ago, and the episodes of season two that are out, Vows, Instinct, and Belle Chose. Echo doesn't kill anyone, let alone 3 or 4 women. Am I missing an episode? I would really like to watch it or be able to look up some info about it if you could post the name. Is that the episode where we find out about the girl who was kidnapped, raped, and completely brutalized? I can't think of anything that fits that in Dollhouse except maybe the girl in the foster home in Briar Rose, where Echo is made into an adult version of the troubled girl so she'll know how to talk to her.

Well the show is cancelled now so only 2 seasons for this show, too bad I liked it.

Two is better than one at least, and now is when the show starts to get really good.  The last few episodes alone blew me away, I'll miss it when it's gone.

Do you think that a lot of the problem with viewer numbers has to do with all the problems we have to face in the current economics and political times?  I pretty much felt very early in the first season that this show was just too dark and demanding, especially on a Friday night when people want to find a little rest from all their problems and stress at work, school or whatever.  For the devoted Joss Whedon fans or people who really got into the show, it would make little difference with Friday night schedule, but for the general tv audience, I think it did. 

I haven't seen the show, but when I saw the movie (serenity) I thought he was just channeling Buffy and it was irksome.  Maybe he needs to write a story about --- a Guy!

I never got the impression that Buffy influenced much his Firefly series or Serenity - Mal to me was the ideal of finding your own hero within - Buffy was chosen to be a hero, Mal chose and found his own strength and determination to, as did his crew.  

I loved Firefly and Serenity - and was very disappointed that the series was canceled without really giving it a chance to develop an audience.  All the cast was very good and they have all gone to success with other projects, I liked all of them and all the characters. 

Yeah, I really don't see the comparison at all.  I loved Firefly/Serenity as well, another show that wasn't given a fair chance, but at least we got a movie.  I think that's probably my favorite cast ever, they're a great group of people.

Yeah, Fridays are when people aren't home or busy with other things, so they DVR stuff they might be interested in. Various things hurt Dollhouse....some people said they didn't know who to root for and wanted a clearer, stronger good guy character. Some found it developing too slowly and not hitting the right notes it needed to. Others wanted Joss to play to his strength of an ensemble show......which has finally happened now (too late). And there are plenty of complaints about Eliza not having enough charisma as Echo to carry the series. I saw some comments during first season that if Amy Acker had played Echo, instead, the show would have found its audience. (ouch) And that was from guys that as far as I could tell, weren't viewers of her previous work. They made that opinion just on her Dr. Saunders work.

Taking 'til ep 6 for 1st season to gel and taking until ep 4 (?) for season 2 to make a mark really hurt. Now, it's awesome.....but too late.

I honestly don't get all of the hate for how Eliza plays the character, I think she's doing a great job.  It can't be easy playing a character with so many different personalities.  I love Amy and all, but I don't think she could have pulled it off as well.  Besides Joss, Eliza was pretty much the only reason I even watched this show.  I probably wouldn't have been interested otherwise.

I'm with you on the performance of Eliza Dushku - I though she was just fine as Echo - and that has to be a very difficult role to play - all those different personalities on top of having to play a persona that is so vacant  and character free when on being taken off an imprint.

I think a show like this can only be done on one station and that is HBO, I mean they had The Wire which in my opinion is the best tv show ever and it didn't have that great ratings but still it was allowed to play out. I mean the man behind the wire even went so far as to say something like "I don't write for the masses cause they are dumbasses", sam kind of thing here and maybe the whole shades of gray just don't go home too well with an american audience, me personally think it should have been much darker and grittier.

Ditto on "The Wire" and you can put "OZ" in the same category, "Deadwood" the same - Powerful Dramas.  I think you are right about The Dollhouse having had a much better chance to find an audience.   

I would also add Rome to those, just 2 seasons but what a story they told with that.

HBO and BBC America and AMC - best of television available in the USA -

And Kudos to Danny Strong for his HBO project "The Last Recount"

Was a bit chocked about this weeks events on Dollhouse, a lot happened for sure.

I had to miss it this week and will have to watch online or  with itunes - but I am sure it was awesome - I will catch up and post later.  I am really sorry to see the series end.   They played Serenity just before the new Battlestar  Galactica  project - and I was reminded just how much I loved that Whedonverse project. 

***SPOILER ALERT***
All I can say is, "Huh?"  Did I miss about a half a season somewhere before the finale cause there were characters I've never seen before, groups like the Butchers, what was that organization Victor worked with and where did he get that tattoo, and when did Alpha start working with the good guys, etc?  It seemed like there must have been several episodes creating this post-Dollhouse world that Joss just didn't show....like the network gave him only one episode left so he jumped past it all straight to the end without explanation.  Or did I miss a show after the episode Hollow Men that wasn't on the website to view? Was anyone else lost????

Typical Joss--one of the major characters (Topher) died in a big splashy "save the world" champion style, and again typically the heroine doesn't get a romantic happily ever after. (Remember how in even Serenity he destroys happy couples?)  Did anyone think of Tara's  surprise shooting death when you saw Paul fall?  On the other hand, Victor and Sierra got to live happily ever after and even have a son--not typical of Joss--which I was happy to see.

All in all, very weird and disjointed.  I'm not sure I liked it.  What about you all?

If you didn't see "Epitaph One," then yeah, you might have been confused.  It was never shown on TV, you could only watch it online or the DVDs.  I downloaded it before I got the DVDs, which is how I saw it.  It does feel like a lot was missing and not explained, but with the limit of episodes they had, it was hard to fit everything in.  I loved the finale, it was sad, but also happy in a way.  Typical Joss, indeed.

Peeps on Whedonesque haven't been confused for the most part, so I think on a repeat viewing of the series E2 will make a lot of sense.

I didn't get to see it because I didn't know it was bumped an hour early, unfortunately. I'd been taping the whole series on my VCR.

I liked the ending, could have used a few more shows to show what had happened but if you watched the previous episode and had seen Epitaph One then you would have known what Boyd was talking about when he said something about not being able to uninvent this which is exactly how we ended up with the ending we did. Of course it was more happy than I would have thought if you consider the whole world, sad for Echo and a few characters died a long the way but still the world got a second chance.

I ended up missing the finale and have to watch it online - but "Epitaph One" would be important for bringing continuity to the last of the series episodes -

I sorry that Topher was killed, but I suspected that he would be - but what a sad night for the Jossverse - another project that I think was cut short by that terrible "friday night" schedule and simply not giving the series enough development time - for the story and for an audience. 

I still think that part of the problem was that people did not want to tune into such a dark and demanding drama after a long week of daily real life troubles or stress - and I think that the economic and political real world problems that we are living with also made it more difficult for this kind of series.  I overheard a lady talking about Avatar and how she felt so depressed after seeing the film. 

What do you folks think - did The Dollhouse suffer from our Real World stress - kind of think that primarily only Joss Whedon  fans were still watching by this time. 

Just watched the finale on Fancast - thought it was a wonderful ending to the series - considering that they had so little screen time to wrap everything up - it left me in a good place - except for Topher.  He just kept getting better and more interesting with every plot advance - Olivia Williams was another character that I found very interesting, same with Victkor.   Really sad that this the last episode. 

You all seem to think I'd understand the finale that aired Friday night better if I'd seen Epitath 1 which is only on the DVD.  Does anyone know of a free place I could see it online instead?  Thanks!

I googled and came up with this link: http://www.megavideo.com/?v=G36TQB2Z