While watching S3 again, I noticed the two scenes below in which Buffy announces her intention to kill Faith for the purpose of feeding him to Angel.  Then, she ropes the others into locating Faith so she can go do the deed.  Only Giles is out of the action.  (Strangely, he's babysitting Angel, which I can't exactly see given their history.) 

Xander is the only one who even vaguely tries to talk her out of it and he doesn't argue against Buffy killing a woman that he once had sex and possibly romantic thoughts about.  He's only concerned that Buffy is going to injury herself psychically.  Willow and Oz make no objections.  This is premeditated murder and they're all accomplices.

During the actual fight scene, Buffy handcuffs the two of them together, which makes for some great fighting as well as the metaphor of Buffy trying to chain up her darker, sexual side.  Buffy stabs Faith(Dark Buffy) and believes she's dead.  She shows no remorse, although maybe a little shell shock.  I think Buffy finds out, in having sex with Angel, that she's opened up a wild side of herself that scares her and that she tries very hard to crush down.  Spike comes along and blows away her constraints and she hates/loves him for doing it.



===================

In the chemistry lab: Buffy, Willow, Xander, Oz.
Willow: Finding the poison wasn't that hard. It's a mystical compound. The latin name translates roughly to Killer of the Dead.  Used on vampires.
Buffy: And the cure?
Willow: There aren't a lot of instances of it being cured.
Buffy: But there are some?
Willow: One or two. Pretty vague accounts. How is he?
Oz: (reading) Hold it.
Xander: You got something?
Oz: I'm not sure.

Buffy: Be sure.

Oz: Okay. Killer of the Dead. That's our boy, and here's a vamp that walked away from it.
Willow: Does it talk about the cure?
Oz: Damn.
Buffy: Nothing?
Oz: No, it's in here, but...
Willow: (reading over his shoulder) Wait, completely reversed the effects. Oh.
Buffy: What?
Xander: Come on guys, the suspense is killing Angel.
Oz: The only way to cure this thing is to drain the blood of a Slayer.
Buffy: (long pause) Good.
Xander: Good? What did I miss?
Buffy: No, it's perfect. Angel needs to drain a Slayer, then, I'll bring him one.
Willow: Buffy, if Angel drains Faith's blood, it'll kill her.
Buffy: Not if she's already dead.

==============

In the library, Buffy and Xander are heading to the book cage.
Buffy: Someone should take over for Giles after a while. Watch Angel.
Xander: I don't mean to play devil's advocate here, but are you sure you're up to this?
Buffy: It's time.
Xander: We're talking to the death.
Buffy: I can't play kid games anymore. This is how she wants it.
Xander: I just don't want to lose you.
Buffy: I won't get hurt. (reaches into a weapons cabinet)
Xander: That's not what I mean.
Buffy: Just get me an address.
They stare at each other for a moment, then Xander leaves. Buffy is holding Faith's fancy knife.

 

I will like to see what other members post before I comment - And THANKS EVER for posting the script excerpt -

but I can say one thing, that this is cold callous and premeditation of intent - seeing the script makes even what she did in the alley against Spike, in my mind, even worse than all the brutality of her attack against Spike.  Buffy has willingly become the killer for Angel/Angelus - surely others will see things differently, but I don't think I ever will. 
 
Buffy: No, it's perfect. Angel needs to drain a Slayer, then, I'll bring him one.
Willow: Buffy, if Angel drains Faith's blood, it'll kill her.
Buffy: Not if she's already dead.

He's only concerned that Buffy is going to injury herself psychically.
No--he's worried about losing her to becoming a murderer, and that it won't stop there.  It's the same thing Angel tried to warn Faith about when he gave her that intervention before Wesley and CoW intervened.

Buffy stabs Faith(Dark Buffy)
Yeah, I don't think Buffy needs a representation of a dark side--she has enough of one on her lonesome.

I think Buffy finds out, in having sex with Angel, that she's opened up a wild side of herself that scares her and that she tries very hard to crush down.
I think the trying to murder Faith proves the opposite.  Not that I think sex with Angel opened some kind of gateway to Buffy's path of darkness...Anyway, I've stated this before on other threads on this subject--she didn't have to kill Faith or go in with the intent to kill her.  She could have snuck up on Faith, just like she does in the ep, and shot her with one of Oz's tranqs instead of attempting to brawl with Faith first before shanking her with her own knife.

Buffy did not have to become a killer (or attempted murderer as it were)--she chose to all on her very own.

I think the trying to murder Faith proves the opposite. Not that I think sex with Angel opened some kind of gateway to Buffy's path of darkness...Anyway, I've stated this before on other threads on this subject--she didn't have to kill Faith or go in with the intent to kill her. She could have snuck up on Faith, just like she does in the ep, and shot her with one of Oz's tranqs instead of attempting to brawl with Faith first before shanking her with her own knife.

Right.. But you're missing one extremely important point:
Buffy is so very, very, very stupid........and insane... :-D


And just for fun, here's a little question for y'all) Has Buffy ever killed a human? who?
If your answer is correct... umm... Lolly pop?
Well, the only thing I can do is make a banner for ya lol

Mesh~

I wouldn't say she was stupid or insane.  She was totally aware of what she was doing.  But I'm guessing your smiley is supposed to imply you're somewhat joking :P

She's killed a few humans--the Knights of Byzantium--when they were on the run from Glory.  But that was self defense, so meh.  Self defense doesn't count.

self defense doesn't count, but every other time a human has an evil plot to kill other people, defending those people doesn't count as defense?
And did Caleb count as human? He was a human murderer who made the choice to gain power from the First Evil and help it butcher a bunch of girls.

She's killed a few humans--the Knights of Byzantium--when they were on the run from Glory. But that was self defense, so meh. Self defense doesn't count.

Huh... I never even considered them human lol guess I owe u a lolly ^_^
But anyhoo, that's not it :P

And even though it was self defense, they were technically humanos.

Mesh~

I think this just proved how very unhealthy Buffy's relationship with Angel was if she was willing to take a human life for him, even if that human life happened to be Faith's. 

I was going to suggest the Knight's of Byzantium as well, but I wouldn't really count that, either.  If some crazy guys were coming after your sister, you'd probably do the same.

self defense doesn't count, but every other time a human has an evil plot to kill other people, defending those people doesn't count as defense?
Yeah, that was not the situation between Buffy and Faith.  Buffy was going after Faith solely for vengeance.  Vengeance, especially when you break into the person's home, is NEVER defending countless innocents.  And if Buffy truly felt that way, she would have taken out Warren before he had the chance to shoot her.

And the Knights were human, whereas Caleb, infused with The First's demony powers, was not.  Humans don't have black tar like substances leak from their eyes.

And Angel had dumped Buffy by then, and was delusional and out of it from the poison.  It wasn't his fault Buffy went out to kill Faith.  He wasn't her "lover," he was her EX.

I think that The Bringers are still human even with their Caleb treatment and I think she kills that human transformed into his Mr. Hyde persona -

The Faith-Angel circumstance was completely different from any other - Buffy places herself in the very interesting contradiction of being both the savior of life and killer of life and the judge and executioner -

I honestly don't know what the Bringers were.  They could have been human, but I don't think that would really count, either.

If you're referring to Pete, I think that was his name, Angel is the one that killed him.

Yeah, Angel killed Pete.  Pete was an abusive, murdering human who made himself transform into something physically stronger.  He'd be in the Mayor Wilkins, Willow and Warren category.

ETA:  And I don't believe the Bringers had any special super human powers, other than amazing sense of direction and fight skills considering they were blind.  But they probably had some of The First's essence or something too...but it's never said either way.

Bringers were humans that gave themselves over to the cause, same as Caleb. They were just as human as Willow, really. Changed magically is different than becoming a demon or half demon hybrid. We're talking metaphysical vs. DNA.

CM

But the Mayor wasn't a demon (assuming that's who you meant)--he sold his soul a hundred years before, then became invincible, then became a full fledged demon, all for his cause.  Pete too--his DNA was all human, but he manipulated it with science to become a demon, or whatever you want to call that freak of nature he made himself.

the human that I can think of that was killed was that former Watcher Gwendolyn Post -

the human that I can think of that was killed was that former Watcher Gwendolyn Post -

We have a winner!  Yep. That's who I was leaning towards. Kudos!
If you're referring to Pete, I think that was his name, Angel is the one that killed him.
Pete? Huh?
Who's Pete?
Angel killed the black kid on Smallville?
I honestly don't know what the Bringers were. They could have been human, but I don't think that would really count, either.

I really don't think they count, either. There was nothing remotely humane about them. They might as well have been zombies.

*goes and takes bubble bath* woohoo!

Mesh~

Except she didn't kill Gwendolyn...she chopped off her arm with some glass, sure, but it was the magical lightning that killed her.

And Pete was that guy who abused his girlfriend and killed people out of jealousy in the ep "Beauty and the Beasts"--Scott's best friend,  not the once token black on Smallville.

technically you are correct - lighting killed Post

Ah, yes.. But  > Gwendolyn: There's nothing you can do to me now. I have the glove. With the glove comes the power.

BUFFY: I'm getting that.

So, Buffy knew cutting off her hand would kill her. Even if the lightning did it, Buffy knowingly caused it.

Perhaps too much has been made of the "Buffy doesn't kill humans" idea.  Buffy doesn't kill innocent humans, which is why Giles is the one to kill Ben and why she freaks out over Kristina. However, I don't know that she had - or should have had - any strong concerns about killing those trying to do evil if it became necessary.  Caleb, the Bringers, the Mayor (who was a giant snake when she killed him), Gwendolyn, even Faith - these were all semi-human at best and/or had gone to the dark side by the time Buffy was fighting them.  And even there her goal wasn't necessarily to kill, but to defend innocent humans from the evil ones.  (Not that the Knights were necessarily evil - but they were trying to kill Dawn. And Faith had tried to kill Angel, and was going to succeed if Buffy couldn't stop it.  In those instances, Buffy's love for her friends and family was stronger than her desire not to kill humans.) Except for stabbing Faith, she's pretty much just fighting as hard as she needs to and it sometimes means that the opponent is going to die.

I don't think Buffy knew that taking the glove would kill Gwendolyn.  She just wanted to strip her of the power.  Not the same. 

True Caleb and the Bringers and the Knights don't count.  Nor does the Mayor, because while he started out human like the rest (excluding the Knights, and again, self defense doesn't count), he wasn't human in the end, and was trying to eat a bunch of people.

Faith however, does count.  She may be a slayer, but she's still a human.  Sure, she went to the "dark," but so did Buffy when she stabbed her/attempted to murder her.  Because that was what she was trying to do.  Buffy didn't have to kill her.  In fact, stabbing her in the gut where she would surely bleed profusely defeats the purpose entirely of trying to give her as a cure for Angel.  So yeah, attempted murder in a vicious and passionate and clearly vengeful way. 

And let us not forget the extreme aggressive beating on Ted, who was luckily for Buffy, just a robot.

I think that a terrible mistake was done with the entire "let's feed Faith to cure my boyfriend" plot - it's a, IMO, an extremely poor creative choice and damaged their prime hero/heroine model in a fundamental way.  And if the whole idea of "Spike the total bad boyfriend" was justified as not wanting to send a bad message to the viewers, "Buffy as attempted premeditated murderess" was surely equally "a bad message."  You have to wonder just what the writers used to justify where they took the character, and this is a Whedon script so the creative decisions can't be place on any other writer.  Did he expect that viewers were not going to have some very strong reactions to the conduct of Buffy?  Was this extremely provocative action expected to be ignored or that viewers were so enamored with the Buffy-Angel Forever arc that they would simply accept  her conscious decision to kill Faith?  Sure, it's comes down to a grand metaphor, we all know that but what a message to be sending out.

This was not Buffy, The Chosen One, protecting the humans and the innocent against the monsters and predators - this was a young woman out to kill for her own needs and agenda.  Does it cleanse Buffy of her first choice because she then offers herself as the sacrifice?  The question of moral and ethics should be part of the discussion, and I like to think that this is part of what motivated the plot device choice. 

What about the dreamscape sequence with Faith being all happy-friendly guide for Buffy?  What are the viewers suppose to do with that - was this another device to cleanse Buffy from her attempt to use Faith?  It is clearly stated that Buffy's motivation was to kill another human and Slayer for her own personal need.  No doubt that this is a clever way to bring back the theme of "taking what you need" and a mirror world contrast to Faith's "take" perspective and Buffy's "take" action, but did this seem like an attempt as a way to bring back the Slayer character as the prime Hero/Heroine model?  It felt that way to me, what are some of the ideas from our members about how this arc was used in the series?  What were the good points or bad points?

FAITH: It's a she. And aren't these things supposed to take care of themselves?

BUFFY: A higher power guiding us?

FAITH: I'm pretty sure that's not what I meant.

BUFFY: There's something I'm supposed to be doing.

FAITH: Oh yeah. - Miles to go - Little Ms. Muffet counting down from 7-3-0.

BUFFY: Great. - Riddles.

FAITH: Sorry, it's my head. A lot of new stuff.

FAITH: They are never going to fix this, are they?

BUFFY: What about you?

FAITH: Scar tissue. It fades. It all fades.

FAITH: You want to know the deal? Human weakness - never goes away. Not even his.

BUFFY: Is this your mind or mine?

FAITH: Beats me... Getting towards that time.

BUFFY: How are you going to fit all this stuff?

FAITH: Not gonna. It's yours.

BUFFY: I can't use all of this!

FAITH: Just take what you need. You're ready? 

No doubt that this is a clever way to bring back the theme of "taking what you need" and a mirror world contrast to Faith's "take" perspective and Buffy's "take" action, but did this seem like an attempt as a way to bring back the Slayer character as the prime Hero/Heroine model? It felt that way to me, what are some of the ideas from our members about how this arc was used in the series? What were the good points or bad points?

This scene really touched me and still does.
I think what they were trying to convey by showing this to us is that, deep down under all trauma, conditioning, hatred and beliefs between the two slayers--they are essentially the same.

In the dream, they were showing their true selves where deep in their mind, they really are one and understand each other.

Not that I think sex with Angel opened some kind of gateway to Buffy's path of darkness.  I say this because after she has sex with A, Buffy starts wearing clothes with tiny leopard skin prints.   She wears something animaly in practically every episode.  Alternating of course with a red hoodie.  Spike says she's an animal in the sex department, too, and has the bites to prove it.

she didn't have to kill Faith or go in with the intent to kill her.  She could have snuck up on Faith, just like she does in the ep, and shot her with one of Oz's tranqs instead of attempting to brawl with Faith first before shanking her with her own knife.  Actually, I think her plan is even creepier than just killing Faith.  In the middle of a fight to the death, she slaps a pair of handcuffs on Faith, which only makes sense if Buffy plans to drag Faith over to Angel's place and let him suck her dry while she's still alive.  Ew!  

Buffy is so very, very, very stupid........and insane... :-D   I'm afraid so.  See this dialog in Something Blue:

Riley: So, you're insane.
Buffy: Uh-huh!

and again in The Puppet Show:

BUFFY: Excuse me? Can I have a *little* support here, please? I'm not just some crazy person, I'm the Slayer. 

lighting killed Post  - I don't think Post died.  She gets zapped by lighting and disappears.  Naturally, she has some gushing arteries to deal with, but not necessarily dead.

let's feed Faith to cure my boyfriend" plot - it's a, IMO, an extremely poor creative choice and damaged their prime hero/heroine model in a fundamental way  - It wasn't resolved in a good way, but damn that was a great Buffy-Faith chick fight.  I wouldn't have missed that for the world.