Posted this in LJ, but thought I'll post it here, seeing as it's been so quiet lately.  Must be summer.

After reading a lot of fanfic and so many discussions on message boards, I discovered that most people believe that Xander will turn things upside down when he learns about Buffy's relationship with Spike in any season and possibly in the S8 comics if Spike started a relationship with Buffy. Granted, he did turn things upside down in Entropy. However, he didn't scream murder when he SAW Spike and Buffy (Buffybot) in action in Intervention. So what's the deal with that unpredictable Xander-guy?

Let's see:


Xander's Reaction Before Hell's Bells:

In Intervention, Xander and Anya saw Buffybot (thinking it was Buffy) having sex with Spike. His reaction was quite understanding and sympathetic. I believe that since things were going so well in Xander's life, he was able to see more objectively and rationally. Xander had the girlfriend, the steady job and the apartment, he's got it all now, which is why he was well-headed enough to accept Buffy's "fling" with Spike. "No one is judging you. It's understandable."

Xander's Reaction after Hell's Bells:

Xander had taken the news hard, made a big fuss, because things weren't 5 by 5 in Xander's life. He's been going through depression since the demon violated his mind in Hell's Bells. He lost Anya, he lost his self-respect, he started drinking, his apartment looked like a dumpster, and Anya wouldn't give him a second chance. Not to mention, he learned about Buffy and Spike after he saw Anya having sex with Spike, so two blows in the same night for a depressed man? Yep, depressed man acts crazy. Depression does that to you, ask Buffy.

Xander's Reaction Post-S6 but Pre-Conversation with Dead People:

Xander wasn't happy about Spike being back in their lives, but he didn't make that much of a fuzz. There wasn't that much of hostility when Spike came back with a soul. Xander was still upset about the attempted rape, which is justified, but he didn't attempt to push Spike away against Buffy's will. A few heated discussions with Buffy and snide remarks at Spike, which was still a progress from the axe of last year. Things changed so much after Xander was placed in the same position Buffy was in in Becoming. Anya was murdering people in Selfless, and she needed to be dealt with. Buffy decided to kill her, and now Xander could understand what Buffy went through that time. That helped him gain a sense of understanding towards Buffy's feelings for Spike, and enabled him to accept taking Spike in later in the episode Him.

Xander's Reaction Post-Him:

All the negativity seemed to have vanished. There were a lot of incidents that showed Xander seeing the picture with unbiased eyes, his new found trust in Buffy's choices and decisions regarding Spike made him a more supportive and understanding friend. He could see now beyond the hate and anger, he was able to see when others (Anya, Dawn and even Willow) weren't able to. When Spike started killing (under the control of the First) Dawn and Anya wanted him out, Willow figured that William the Bloody was back, however, Xander thought that Spike was triggered. It wasn't Spike's fault.


So, this was a gradual character-development for Xander Harris, whose progression needs to be seen through a telescope. It is hard to see how much Xander has grown and changed at first viewing of the series, unless you're a hardcore Xander fan, which I am.

I am, too, so I completely agree with all of that.  I hate how people make him the bad guy in fictions, the one who always tears the Spuffy apart.  I really don't think he would, but I'm glad to see I'm not alone in that. 

I remember being pretty mad at Xander when Entropy first aired because of the way he treated Anya, but I like him just fine now. His reactions are always understandable.

Also, he calmed down pretty quickly post-Entropy. By Seeing Red, he told Buffy that it hurt that she hadn't told him about Spike, while acknowledging that she had every reason to think he'd be an ass about it. Not exactly the ravings of an unreasonable Spuffy-hating psychopath.

I hate character bashing in general, so fics in which Xander or Riley are the villain annoy me.

Same here, they're good guys to me and I just can't see them as villains.  It would be too out of character, in my opinion.  Yes, they've both made mistakes, but so has everyone else.

Exactly! Xander didn't like Angel, either, and he didn't put a bump in Buffy and Angel's relationship, much less end it. Her friends would've been concerned, but I can't see them harming Spike or doing anything to forcibly end Spuffy. The only one who tried was Giles, and we saw how Buffy took that.

I think some authors try to make Spike more appealing by making every other guy on the show worse (Xander tried to rape Buffy, too! Riley has a pencil dick! Angel couldn't get her off!), but it's not much of a challenge to get Buffy and Spike together if all other males are somehow more evil than a soulless demon or inadequate in bed or Buffy never really loved them anyway. Spike and Buffy provide enough drama all on their own.

The real beauty of most of the characters (and all of the core ones) is that they are multi-layered.  You can build on a character trait and given the right impetus have them behave anywhere in the range of total get to a hero and have it fit.  It's all about the REASON for their behavior.

I love Xander and really saw character growth especially in S7.  I completely agree that the major turning point in his life was Hells Bells.  When he finally saw all he had thrown away and all that resulted he matured amazingly. 

I don't dwell on the comics but it seems that in some ways he has lost that momentum but the growth hasn't been completely undone unlike some of the others.

I try to write Xander based on the season in which I am telling the story .  Cliff notes version might read : Early Xander could be a goof and a distraction with more bravery than skill.  Post HS Xander had some really bad moments with pettiness and some bullying (not not only towards Spike BTW.  In fact I always understood his problem with vampires including Spike.) S6 Xander was a mixed bag...really all over the canvass from the uncaring source of trouble and death in OMWF to the hero who stands by his friend and saves the world.  As I said S7 Xander was learning to let others make their own choices and more understanding of when those choices might lead to bad things.  He was watching more and spouting off less.  He was growing into a fine man IMHO.

When I write way out of canon (rare) I try to at least chose aspects of character I saw on screen for any and all of the characters and attempt to make the events dictate how they react.

Great points!
Kathleen

What Kathleen said... 

I think it's those multi-layers that allow authors to write a character one way one fic, and another way in another one. It depends on which of that character's traits you choose to emphasize in that fic. And those traits wax and wane over the seasons - definitely. 
<small> but Xander did decide not to warn Buffy that Willow was trying to put Angel's soul back...</small>

That was one of the petty parts along with his glee when Buffy seemed to be not going to college and later had to drop out!  He had issues LOL.

Kathleen

Xander definitely had his petty moments, but there was more to him than that. Even at his worst, it wasn't random – he had motivation. Simplifying him to make him an easy villain is what bugs me. It's not like anyone on the show was *always* likable.

The gang's non-reaction to him burning people up in OMWF does irk, especially since we see Buffy flip over an accidental death in DT. I did like it in S7 when Buffy brought up "Willow says kick his ass." That was definitely a low moment for Xander.

Xander and Spike - I ask myself, if I was Robin Wood and I wanted to go after Spike, would I team up with Giles, who's always in Buffy's corner, or would I ask Xander to help me?  He hates Spike right?  But I think, no, Xander no matter how much he hates Spike, he wouldn't do anything to him, except in the heat of the moment (as in when he finds out Spike and Anya did the deed).   Why?  Because he knows Buffy loves Spike? 

It's all about the REASON for their behavior.

I agree.

I try to write Xander based on the season in which I am telling the story .

This is what I was trying to say with this post.  A writer has to know the character's state of mind at the period they're writing.  You can't write S7 Xander as if he's exactly like S1 Xander, they're very different characters despite what some believe.  I've watched S7 recently and I laughed when Xander said that being sarcastic was his job, that's true in the high school years, and probably S4, but Xander clearly lost his sharp wit in the later seasons.

his glee when Buffy seemed to be not going to college and later had to drop out!

I don't remember this part. I need to watch S5. But, LOL, poor Xander, he wants someone else in the group to be a non-college person. He does have issues. LOL

Xander definitely had his petty moments, but there was more to him than that. Even at his worst, it wasn't random – he had motivation.

I agree. As elisi said in her review of The Pack: "the big difference between Hyena!Xander and ordinary being-a-jackass-Xander lies in the fact that Xander can do/say awful things, but they're usually in reaction to something else or he's lashing out because he's hurting. Xander doesn't do caluculated cruelty."

if I was Robin Wood and I wanted to go after Spike, would I team up with Giles, who's always in Buffy's corner, or would I ask Xander to help me?  He hates Spike right?

Wood doesn't really know Xander.  And by the time Wood met him, Xander didn't show any sign of hating Spike. But Wood saw Giles being annoyed that Spike isn't chained, and heard him say that Spike is dangerous. Not to mention that Wood doesn't know that Spike is always in Buffy's corner.

Wood doesn't really know Xander.  - guess you're right.  It's a little hard to decipher what Wood knows about any individual in the group, other than that Buffy is the slayer and was in pretty much continual trouble in high school.  Still, Wood is pretty sneaky and he's On A Mission.  You'd think he would feel out various people about Spike. 

I think Wood also went to Giles because he's a Watcher.

Giles is the safer choice for Wood - not just a Watcher, but an authority figure, a parental substitute, with everything those titles imply. OTOH, Xander is (usually) Buffy's friend, a long-time Scooby, her contemporary. Xander is more likely to hesitate if he stops to realize that Buffy will be hurt by this, to be more easily swayed by memory or second thoughts than Giles would be. Xander's not perfect, but when it comes to betraying Buffy, he can't hold a candle to Rupert Giles. Wood is smart enough to figure that out and go with whatever puts the odds in his favor.

I don't think Wood went to Giles because he sensed he would betray Buffy, but because Wood, having been raised by a Watcher, knows how they think. Giles does what has to be done. If Wood could convince Giles that Spike was a danger to Buffy, Giles would choose Buffy's safety over her feelings.

I agree that Giles is the safer choice because of the Watcher connection.  It doesn't seem likely that Wood would know about Giles' past betrayals though. 

Xander possibly does betray Buffy when she's going to fight Angel and he doesn't tell her that Willow is going to try the spell to restore her soul again.  You could make the argument that he tells her that so she won't be distracted and get killed.  Does Buffy ever get the memo on that little act?  I don't think so since she runs off the Los Angeles.  Also, his involvement in bringing Buffy back from the dead could be considered a betrayal.  If he (and the others) were really certain that what they were doing was a good thing they would have told Giles and Spike.

Also, he might simply be more comfortable with Giles. He might perceive Giles as being more similar to himself and therefore preferable as an ally.

Principal Wood had the greatest motivation and memory for going to Giles - he lived the CofW philosophy with his Slayer mother - the mission comes first.

Xander has really come into his own in the comic book season - he is a leader and competent, he works great with Dawn and I think they make a great team - and he, IMO, has finally put away the things of teen and early manhood when he tells Buffy that he loves her sister.  I really like the way Joss Whedon resolved that arc and also how to pokes fun at the fans and shippers.  I think that Joss Whedon still can't accept that for many fans there continue to be many concerns with his early  treatment of the Buffy and Angel love relationship. 

Great to see some discussion here again -

 the mission comes first - not for Robin.  He's ready to let the mission go to hell so he can get his revenge.  Love it.  It's true, Giles was a more comfortable fit for Robin's plans.

Xander in comics - I really hate comic book Xander.  In fact, Xander after the end of S6 is pretty much over for me as a character.  And, can't he get that damn eye fixed?  When is the last time you've seen somebody running around with a patch?  Never.  The doctors would give him an eye transplant or something.  That would be more fun - they could do a thing like Lindsay's crazy hand.  Xander's crazy eyeball that has a laser beam coming out of it.  ZZZZZZZZ - I melt you with my Laser Eyeball Ray.

I liked Xander's response to Buffy deciding she was in love with him (saw how long that lasted when Angel showed up) but the whole idea of Buffy being in "luv" with Xander was ludicrous. 

"Xander has really come into his own in the comic book season"
 
What I mean is that in the Season 8, he is no longer a side kick only - he is taking a leadership role and is good at it.  Have to agree with you on the eye patch.  Not only that, Willow being such a powerful witch - it would seem natural for her to fix his eye problem. 

I think the keeping of the eye patch in the comics serves two purposes: First, it means the character is easily identifiable, even  if he's far in the background, which is easier on the artists. Second, it adds a touch of Nick Fury Cool to him, fitting the former Mr. Tacky Hawaiian Shirt into the comic genre more smoothly.

On the other hand, it may have been a promise made by Joss. Nick Brendon told Joss during the end of season 7 that he didn't want it "fixed" if there was a movie. He didn't want some magical fix or a transplant or whatever. He wanted the eye patch. (Reference: Commentary on Dirty Girls DVD) Obviously, the movie never happened, but Joss may have decided to keep the eye patch in the genre the story went to, in recognition of Nick's wishes.

I agree that Xander turning down Buffy was a great moment for him.

It was just such a horrible one for Buffy! Moving in on the guy kissing your sister? That's gonna make holiday dinners awkward. Xander should get to be awesome with Buffy being a tool.

*Without* Buffy being a tool. Too early to type.

I think the eye patch is Xander's superhero costume in the comics. Plus, sacrifices/ war wounds don't mean nearly as much if they're fixable.

Also, I really like that in the beginning they're all "Whoa, Xander! You've really lost weight!" I bet Nick really appreciated that.

Okay - instead of the patch, Willow could give him a new eye, but it would be all gnarly like a demon or vampire eye.  That would be a lot more fun.

He should be Mad Eye Xander, with a spinning magic eyeball.

what the heck happened to the huge scar - he got a tube of that scar ointment down at Walgreens.  Stuff works miracles. 

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