I'm not sure he was after high school, I know he was a jerk to Spike, but that's about it. Wouldn't he hate Riley and Wood or dating Buffy if he still loved her? Why would he set Buffy up with his coworker if he still wanted Buffy for himself?

I always saw it as Xander thinking that Buffy can do better than Spike, and he had that annoying overprotective brother thing going on.

But last night I was watching Never Leave Me and it struck me how much Xander had grown up. His attitude toward Spike had softened a great deal. I actually fell in love with him, and hated Dawn and Anya in return, their attitude toward Spike was painful especially Dawn's. It was weird to see Xander in the pro-Spike club and Dawn was in the anti-Spike club.

Whether he still thought of her in a romantic sense or not by the end of the series has been heavily debated, but I'm one who didn't end up hating the guy by the end. He definitely took strides to redeeming himself and growing up in Season 7 - thank God. I do think he has Buffy on a pedestal a lot of the time to where most guys would never be good enough for her. And I think he could be okay around a souled Spike as long as there wasn't a romantic relationship between the vampire and the Slayer...or at least not an abrupt one.

One thing I didn't like about that season is that Spike and Dawn never made steps towards reconcilliation......and actually, except for "Potential", Dawn was written as being pretty nasty the whole season when she had to interact with others. Also sad to see, even though there are teens that go through that phase. Part of the blame lies with Buffy, since it seemed doubtful that she explained her relationship with Spike to the teen over that summer he was gone. And it's debateable whether Dawn was more upset over Spike leaving (her), or of what "happened" with Buffy.

 I'm not really sure that Xander cares much about Buffy being with Spike or not, he seemed to really 'like' Spike. Maybe because they lived together again? He got to see the good side in Spike better than the others, except for Buffy of course. Never Leave Me made me respect Xander a lot. I really like that. I hope when rewatching I'll be able to like the rest of the Scoobies again. I have doubts I'd like Giles, though.

Dawn surely does seem to dislike Spike, but she looks very cool fighting the Bringers by herself. It's sad that both of them didn't make a move to rebuild their friendship.

I think one of the saddest things about season VI and then VII is the lack of attention to the S/D friendship that was so evident at the very beginning of S. VI.  Once she was no longer in constant danger as she had been in season V when she was the focus of the year's big bad, she seemed to recede into the background and I can actually understand much of her acting out. (teenagers being the self-centered little creatures that they are - her sister's depression and Tara's sadness probably zipped right past her). I would like to have seen her make-up with Spike before he died, but perhaps living with the knowledge that she didn't is her punishment for being so insensitive.  I'd also like to think that at some point Buffy explained enough about her relationship with Spike and what did and did not happen in the bathroom that Dawn was able to get over Xander's version of events.  Of course, since it's Buffy we're talking about, she probably didn't do that until long after he was gone....:)

I don't Xander was still "in love" with Buffy, so much as he considered himself the proper person to guide her love life ("If I can't have her, I want to decide who does"). I've seen many explanations for his dislike of Spike (and other vampires), the most realistic of which seems to me to be the fact that he lost Jesse to vamps.  Except for the whack on the head in Season III, I don't know that Spike ever did that much to target Xander.  He may just have carried his strong dislike of Angel over to the new vampire in Buffy's life - particularly since said vamp was related to Angel and had the hots for Buffy. It is easy to write him as still carrying a torch for her though, and it explains a lot of his otherwise inexplicable behaviors towards Spike.

Season seven Xander, no I don't think he was still in love with her, now if you ask me about season five, then yeah, I think he was. As far as Riley goes I really believe he wasn't threatened by him 'cause deep down inside he knew Buffy could or would not really love him.  As for him hating Spike, I just think Xander had is view altered not only by the Council but also by Jessie being turned and having to kill him. I mean, can you vision having your bestfriend taken from you by a demon, and have him come back as well. All you know is this thing is wearing your friend's skin. That's gotta be hard.

Truth be told, in all of Xander's incarnations (sp?) I still loved him.

I know I read some place that Sara said Joss wanted her to hook up with Xander in season four, 'cause he didn't want her with any more vamps. But she was pushing for Spike and Buffy and I'm not sure if James was or not. But in another interview Joss said he wanted Buffy with Spike, he was the One for her as she was the One for him. *shrugs*

Xander really has the hots for Spike and Angel, hence jealousy badness. 

Hmm, that picture thingie so didn't work.

i dont really think xander was still *in love* with buffy in season 6 and 7...but i do think that he was sort of holding onto old feelings...kind of like buffy did with angel, long after they didn't even know each other well enough for it to still be love, you know what i mean?

like, she was his first serious crush/love in high school, and it was hard for him to let that go, even while he was with anya...i think that losing anya in season six made him kind of deal with it, because it made him appreciate her more and realize that she was the one he really loved...

but i think up until that point, even if you wouldn't call it love, he still had an unhealthy amount of interest in buffy's personal life, especially the men in her life....

anyway, that's my take on it :)

See, my thing about Xander is season 6 & 7 is that he still had that "Big Brother" complex about Buffy.

I have had friends do that to me.

Xander loves Buffy, there is no question about that. Whether it is acutal "LOVE" or the friendship love, is to be questioned.

yes, Xander still had an un-healthy interest in Buffy's love life, but most men do when they have friends that they are extremely protective of.

Oh, yeah, men definitely do that! I had a friend (who'd crushed on me for a while) take my newish boyfriend at the time into a room for a private talk about how to "handle" me.....this from a guy who never had the guts to ask me out, but he knows what's best for me?

Yeah, DoS, you're right about the losing Anya thing.....his focus really shifted over to her, finally, once he didn't have her anymore....and it was nice to see them make steps back to each other in S7 before she died. And I imagine after losing Anya at the same time Buffy lost Spike, that they had something new to commiserate in their grief.....and he'd finally just let Buffy be Buffy.

That was me. Forgot to sign the post.

CM I agree. They shared in each other's sorrow.

Personally I think with Xander, he did grow up in a lot of ways but he had a hard time seeing Buffy in a different light.

Think about it. We all have a friend that we know well or grew up with and we label them in our best friend terms. We grow up and our lives change and we become further shaped by our experiences and sometimes we have a problem seeing people for who they are now instead of who we've always known them as.

I think this was the case with Xander and Buffy. He was in love with her for awhile and even though his love for her did change, his view of her didn't so he always had this kind of warped way of seeing things.

As for the Spike/Dawn thing...one of my pet peeves. I think Spike dropped the ball in his relationship with Dawn because he was so wrapped up in Buffy but at the same time, its kind of hard to relate to the 'kid sister' because you can't confide in them about the older sister and what kinds of screwed up things are going on with her and after Buffy was resurrected, lets face it--Spike was cast out again.

Joss & Co made it seem like the summer Buffy was away, things with everyone was a lot easier with more comraderie and acceptance and then when Buffy came back, BAM. Instant pariah again so there was all of that crap against Spike.

With Dawn, losing her Mom and then her sister and then getting said sister back again only to find that she would rather be dead still and pretty much ignoring you and everything about you...yeah for a teenager it hurts a lot and being a teen is difficult enough already. Then there's the whole acting out in school and the petty theft and such...not really something you want to share with anyone especially with a depressive, absent sister and a reclusive vampire whom your sister claims to hate and disapprove of.

When seeing Red happened, I think Dawn was angry for a whole lot of reasons. Yeah a big one was Spike's attempted rape on Buffy but I also think it had a lot to do with her feeling betrayed. He took care of her that whole summer...its was well known, so I think she took it even harder because of their friendship with each other. She trusted him and looked up to him and he does something awful and then he runs off and disappears, not to mention dear ol Xander spouting off his poison and making the situation that much worse.

Ugh...ok I'm stepping off the soapbox. That was one time period that has me annoyed all to hell with the inconsistencies.

on the Spike and Buffy season four stuff.  I think Joss just didn't want to have season four be their season.  And I agree with the decision because if they'd hooked up in season four then Spike would have just been a replacement for Angel.  It would have been bad for the show overall, because the entire thrust of the show wasn't buffy's love life.  It wasn't called: "Spuffy" for a reason.

So, when Joss says at the end that Spike was the one for her, but he also said in places that he resisted the Spuffy relationship at first, both things can be true.  The resisting had less probably to do with whether or not they would make a good couple and more to do with the whole show as a whole and not wanting to become redundant.

Although I hated Riley, storywise and show-wise I think giving Buffy a human boyfriend after angel was the best thing.

As to Xander still loving Buffy.  I think he never totally grew out of his crush and in the back of his mind there was always that "hope."  I think he thought he could fill some roll for her that no one else could...except maybe a vampire.  A vampire was a real threat to him because he couldn't compete, and also, like others have said, he had all that vampire hatred because of Jesse.

So I don't think he was really "in love" with Buffy,but I think he carried a tiny little flame from an old torch and was willing to lose her to a human, but never to a vampire.

I'm so sleepy I forgot what I was going to say,lol.

Oh, yeah. I think the whole Spuffy season six was bad though. WHY, oh WHY did Joss let it go down like that. Buffy could have gettn in touch with her dark side in a totally healthy way of course with Spike's help. I understand them not hooking up in season four. I have no problems with that. Riley was a good choice, he was rebound guy and borning. Buffy got to see that a human man no matter what he did could not or would not cut it for her. But we could have gotten a better Spuffy. (that's why we fix it ;))

I did get the feeling that everything went smooth during the time Buffy was dead. It was like now that the Slayer is gone things can be "normal" even with Spike caring for Dawn. As long as he was acing like a vampire it was ok to treat him like he was alive. Once Buffy came back it was time to shun Spike and make him remember that he was nothing but an evil soulless monster who did what the Scoobies didn't want to waste time with (i.e. Dawn).

For season six, Joss was mostly away working on Angel and Firefly, he left Noxon in charge and she's the one who decided to work off all her personal psychological angst on our two fave blonds.

Yeah, Joss still had to give final approval, but he wasn't down in the trenches anymore a lot of the time. The writers are always clear that he still had to approve the stories, though, so "blame" still rests on his shoulders.

I say we all arm ourselves with french loaves and batter him silly!

I personally am glad season six went to hell.  If everything had been perfect, and we all got our Spuffy Happily Ever After, then there wouldn't be all this fanfic.  We'd only have the show.  This way we get indefinite episodes.  As long as we're all obsessed. ;)

*nods* true. but they could have saved spike from being buffy's walking vibrator, her punching bag, then almost rapist. eventhough i still feel that when buffy jumped in the first time that was a little bit of non con. she didn't ask if he wanted it or not, she just took it. but then you have the whole vamp thing, and i know he had no problem with it, but still.

oh yeah, that first time with the building, if he'd said something like "not like this buffy" she would have tried to do it anyway or punched him in the nose.

He's lucky he's a vampire, only way he could survive her.

Yeah, cuz you know if he tried to slow it down, she just would have gotten offended, punched him in the nose, and stormed off in a righteous huff because she's insulted now.

I don't think it was so much that Xander was in love with her as it was a bruised ego.  Riley- a boring, lame ass human Angel was clearly no threat.  Normal= good in their world, right?  So by all means, if Buffy wants Joe Normal (to an extent), then I think Xander would root for that.  But to be with another vampire, particularly a soulless one, deepens the wound of Buffy initially rejecting Xander.  I really didn't get that myself.  Xander was way better than Riley, and did anyone else think that Parker sorta resembled him?

Anyway, Xander didn't hate Spike as much as he let on- in season four, he saved Spike's life in the Hellmouth. He could have just left him there when the building was collapsing.  Willow couldn't have carried him out, and Buffy was preoccupied stopping those self sacrificing demons.  And yes, Xander grew up in s7.  He stopped wearing those "Buffy rose colored" glasses and thought for himself.  When I say that, I mean that really, Buffy and Xander had been influencing each other heavily in the "Spike bad" department- they fed off of each other with that concept.  But when Spike willingly got his soul, in addition to the summer of Buffy's death and seeing Spike's reaction to it all, Xander finally came to the logical conclusion that no, Spike is not inherently evil, and that he has layers.  Xander stopped being a sheep, so Yay! Xander.

You know truthuly, I think Xander wasn't threatened by Riley because he was normal, and he knew Buffy could never love that. (did I say that before?). There was no worry there, he figured after Riley Buffy would then see that he was the ONE for her. With Angel, Buffy was in love with him. Is it safe to say Xander didn't even like Angel before Buffy started to moon over him? Maybe because he seen something there already. And the same goes for Spike. Xander saw the possiblity there that Buffy could love another vampire, hence over looking him once again. But he failed to see that Buffy was not normal, she could never be happy with normal. She needed someone who was her equal. Xander could never fill that.

Or maybe Xander thought Riley was a better boyfriend for Buffy than Spike and Angel? I think he still had a thing for Buffy, but never acted on it after season three. He was never jealous of Scott Hope in season three, not the same way he was jealous of Owen and that guy from Roswell.

Alas, we must remember that Xander's fantasy of being with a Slayer was fulfilled the utmost extent when Faith took his virginity. I think that broke her Buffy infatuated spell indefinitely.

Poor Xander. His whole thing with Faith made me really feel bad for him, especially when he thought that they had something, it reminds me of Buffy and Spike sometimes. Slayers do seem full of themselves don't they?