BSV Forum - General - The Bloodshedpub

Okay, WHY do people do this?? ::sigh::

Apr 10 2007 09:59 pm   #1Unbridled_Brunette

I have received several disgruntled reviews (not on BSV) about the direction my story is taking. Even though I left ample warning at the start of Part II, still I have people bitching about the violence, the switch in tone, the lack of Buffy, the lack of Spuffy, etc. And I am growing bloody tired of it! If you don't like the story, then don't read it! If you are going to read it, anyway, don't tell me that my plot is wrong and here's how I need to fix it.

Here's a prime example of what I'm putting up with.

youre focusing on spike too much. what happend to buffy? was she send back to her time how long was she gone??? i wanna know that kind of stuff. love to read more !!!!! 

 

Another example...

this is very upsetting. it pains me to say this, but i can no longer enjoy this story. i can't read about sweet william as a killer and with drusilla, it's too hard to get through. i might continue once you start writing about buffy in the present, hopefully that wouldn't be too long of a wait. i was hoping that the last chapter would have been the end of the past, that we wouldn't have to witness william after he was turned. i don't know why, but i was thinking it would just be buffy and spike from now on. this really sucks, i always look forward to the updates of this story, but now i'll only feel dread as long as he's with drusilla. i can't stand her and never will, but i do wish you luck with the rest of it. you are a great writer and i will miss this story dearly.
 

 

And yet another...

Okay, i'm taking a break now. i can't read this anymore, i'll just wait for part 3. sorry, but i don't know how some people can be expected to read about 20 chapters of william as a killer and with drusilla, it's just not spuffy to me anymore. so i'll just wait until it is spuffy again, i pretty much already know what happened in the past anyway. i really don't need to read it. i can tell that it won't be long before he forgets about her completely, he's already starting to feel more for drusilla and i can't handle angelus turning him into an even bigger monster. i guess it will be a while before i check out this story again. you're still a good writer, but this is just too much for me. i just have a hard time reading about him with anyone else, i'm too much about the spuffy.



This is NOT constructive criticism. In fact, it doesn't even have a point. If you are no longer going to read the story, why bother telling me? Moreover, these people seem to hate the things that are canon to BtVS (William becoming Spike; Spike having a relationship with Dru.) And I am sick and tired of hearing how I should "tell what's happening in the future." I have already stated several times in several difference warnings/author's notes that I will not be doing this. Why can't they just accept it and move on? I love to hear about what I've done wrong or what could be improved in my chapters. But this is just ridiculous.

Don't get me wrong. I've had tons of wonderful reviewers both on this site and the others. But I just had to rant a little. :P

Faithfully bowing at the altar that is Stephen Colbert
Apr 10 2007 10:08 pm   #2TwilightChild

  Personally, I absolutely love your story.  Its beautiful even for the parts that are gruesome and hard to get through.  These people who leave comments like this are overly romantic fools who can't appreciate an actual story, only parts that make them happy.  They have no concept of character development.

  Spike was a monster, for a very long time.  There's no getting around it.  But these few readers don't come here to read complex stories, they come for the happy ending that the actual show always cheated them out of.  I'm really sorry you have to fall prey to that.  

  Your story is beautiful, tragic, compelling and always a pleasure, even if it gets cringe-worthy.  Don't let anyone talk you out of writing it your way, to your complete vision.


Twilightchild

Apr 10 2007 10:54 pm   #3GoldenBuffy

I guess they feel they have to voice the reason why they are no longer reading or enjoying the story. As for the canon issue, hello William was turned he made his name as Spike he WAS with Drusilla. If you don't like that then you don't like their past before he came to Sunndale. At one point in his life he didn't revolved around Buffy. Just like I may not like fics were Spike is turned human I would never or could never say some of the crap that these readers are saying to you to an author. They've spent time and effort in writing the fic not for you to belittle it and tell them that their plot and story suck. I'm guessing these reviews have come from SR. And of course it's of no surprise. A lot of readers over there I'm assuming are young and just want happy fluffy Spuffy. Well all fics aren't like that. You've given warning and that should have been enough for them, they've been warned. Just try your best not to let them get to you. KNow that you have writen a wonderful story, and hey others think so too. Go pet your shinny award(s). :) *huggles*

And in the air the fireflies
Our only light in paradise
We'll show the world they were wrong
And teach them all to sing along
Apr 10 2007 11:01 pm   #4pfeifferpack

 I love your story.  In fact it is one of the very few to tackle full out vampire Spike.  I think there is a reality check when you look at the evil up close.  Whether talking of Angelus, Spike, Dru or whatever vamp (save those just risen) you are talking mass murderer.  Not only a murderer but likely a torturer, possibly a rapist, baby killer, etc.  and no remorse either.  That is what the vampire IS.  That is NOT what some readers want to be reminded of.  They want Spike as a big fluffy bunny who would NEVER harm a hair on anyone's head (at least if they asked nicely) unless it was a really rotten person who deserved it.  That actually takes away from the remarkable journey of this character.  Spike was a powerful and old vampire.....lots of evil done and reveled in.  Love changed him or rather he changed for love.  Yes he was different in motives and practices from Angelus, but he was what he was.


Some people can't handle that.  It squigs them out to think they cast a murderer in the role of romantic lead of their fantasy.  That is what you are encountering.  Some people just want the kissy face and hand holding and sugar coating.


Carry on and just chalk it up to what it is.  Your story is brilliant and different and fascinating.  Darkness bothers and scares lots of folks.  Let them seek the lighter fare and miss all the lovely stars you only see in the dark.


Kathleen

Apr 10 2007 11:05 pm   #5FetchingMadScientist

I haven't read the story in question, but I have received comments like that before.  People who leave comments like that seem to have forgotten that Spike is a three-dimensional character.  He was with Dru for a long time, and that time, as the killer that a *vampire* is, is what shaped him into who we loved.

It can't always be fluffy.  There is more to Spike than just Buffy, and how he relates to her.  If people can't understand that with this story, the Spuffy may be slow in coming, or even non-existent, even after you have warned them- there isn't much more you can do.

Continue the story you have planned, and try not to let these comments get to you too much.

"Never a fetching mad scientist about when you need one." -Spike
Apr 10 2007 11:27 pm   #6Unbridled_Brunette

For some reason my comment got deleted. :shrug:

Anyway...

Thanks to all who replied. :)

I won't change my plotline for anyone, regardless. It just irks me that some people continue to read a story that they know will upset them, just so they can say it upset them in a review. I'm glad these people enjoyed Part I, but I left a very visible Author's Note stating that Part II would be darker and that it would contain no Buffy. I also left a very visible note asking readers to pay special attention to the new warnings for Part II. These warnings are, as follows: Violence, Adult Language, Sexual Situations, Rape, and Spike/Other. That pretty much covers all bases. So, why, if they see these new warnings, do the fluffy-Spuffy fans continue to read it?

And, yes, GB. It was on SR. Apparently, they are known for these kinds of reviews?

ETA: I forgot to mention it, but the people that left the last two reviews (stating they were no longer going to read) had never left me reviews before. So, if they had not told me they were leaving, I would never have known. It was like they were trying to guilt me into changing the story.

Faithfully bowing at the altar that is Stephen Colbert
Apr 11 2007 12:18 am   #7Always_jbj

*nods vigorously* What Kathleen said!!

Yeah, I went through a similar problem on SR when I posted (at Pari's request) the sequel to one of my fics... only the sequel is set 125 years later...so isn't Spuffy. Pari knew this and said post it, I put up ample warnings telling people that it wasn't Spuffy, would never BE Spuffy but it did have a Spuffy feel to it. I had many people tell me to remove it, and that they didn't care if Pari said to post it... I had one twit read and review every chapter and keep complaining about it and asking when it would be Spuffy, and each time I told her it never would be and that she should stop reading. *throws hands in air* some people...

So, yeah... know how you feel. *hugs*

Aim from the heart
Some will love and some will curse you, baby
You can go to war
But only if you have to 


Fanfic ~*~ Artwork ~*~ Live Journal
Apr 11 2007 12:40 am   #8slaymesoftly

I knew before you said so, that it was Spuffy Realm.  There are a lot of very immature readers there (not necessarily chronologically) and all they want is Spuffy, Spuffy, Spuffy (by which they mean, very often, Spuffy sex - apparently any other depiction of the relationship is not "spuffy" regardless of what else is going on).  If you can, you just need to accept that they realize that you are an excellent writer and try to ignore the fact that they think they should be allowed to dictate to you how your story should go.  It happens to all of us.  *hugs*

Well said, Kathleen!  Beautifully put, as always. :)

I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Apr 11 2007 12:46 am   #9spikeskat

Gonna go w/ Slayme on this one... take what you get w/ regards to reviews from certain sites with a grain of salt. I haven't read the story in question - kinda steer clear from WIPs, but have it on good authority that it's a must read when you're finished - but, don't compromise the direction of your story for what looks like nothing more than a bunch of childish (immature) wanna-be reviews. Spike DID have a life before Buffy, and after her too.

~*~*~*~*~
Website // Livejournal
Apr 11 2007 01:05 am   #10Unbridled_Brunette

Thanks, guys. :)

I'm feeling better about it now. Just needed to vent to cool off, I guess. lol. I've just gotten so many of those silly reviews over the last four chapters that I just couldn't keep quiet any more. I appreciate all the support, though, and all the words of reason. :P

Faithfully bowing at the altar that is Stephen Colbert
Apr 11 2007 01:09 am   #11lostboy

I wouldn't sweat it too much, UB.  Look at it this way: every time someone leaves a weird passive-aggressive sort of review (or "de-view", or whatever), it just adds to the total number of reviews, which probably just lures more readers in to find out what the fuss is all about.  :)

I'm not gonna pile on SR here, though.  It was actually the first ficsite I found and I met some really awesome, encouraging people through it.

 

Apr 11 2007 01:28 am   #12Unbridled_Brunette

Oh, yeah. Like I said, I've got some wonderful, insightful viewers over on SR as well as here. I'm not having a go at the site in general. Just at the little Spuff-fluffers who get offended when I don't offer my Happily-Ever-After on a cake plate. :D

Faithfully bowing at the altar that is Stephen Colbert
Apr 11 2007 02:36 am   #13Coquine

I'll keep it simple.  Your story rocks.  Your characterization rocks.  You rock.  Complainers suck.  The end.

You did everything right, as far as I'm concerned, and if some readers aren't mature enough to handle the situation, that's not your fault.  Unfortunately, you have to deal with the frustration, but at least you know you did your part.

I was definitely surprised with the direction you took your story, especially since I was a bit turned off by the summary and it took me a long time to actually read it.  But once I did, I loved it, and couldn't wait for each new installment.  And I've never, ever read a story like yours before.  The fact that you are actually going through Spike's transformation, something so many authors tend to skim over, was alone enough to make me love the story even more.  And sure, I'm just as eager to get to Spike and Buffy's inevitable confrontation, and I can't wait to see how you handle the new timeline/memories each character will have, but I'm more than content to take the journey with Spike as you've written it.  That's just one of the great things about following an awesome story...it's always good, no matter how it goes.

There's my two cents, anyway...

 

Apr 11 2007 03:02 am   #14slaymesoftly

Nicely said, Coquine

I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Apr 11 2007 03:52 am   #15Scarlet Ibis

The long and short of it? "Flames happen," no matter how kick ass the story is.  You can't please everyone, so don't bother.  The majority loves it, so no worries :D

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
Apr 11 2007 04:44 am   #16Spikez_tart

UB - really sorry to hear about your jerky reviewers.  I've loved everything about the story so far - the E/W stuff and the William becoming an evil vampire.  His descent into to evil is fascinating and scary.  I admit I can't wait to find out what's happened to Buffy.

A lot of readers seem to want stories where nothing bad happens to Buffy and Spike - and as pointed out above, they don't like to be reminded that there was a really good reason why Buffy didn't want to get mixed up with him - he's a murderer and god knows what else.  That's not the way stories work - the author takes a sympathetic character and boils him in hot oil - that makes a great story - not sweetness and light.

You can rant anytime as long as you keep cranking out that story.  :)

 

If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Apr 11 2007 05:01 am   #17Scarlet Ibis

I'd personally be interested in more Spike and Angelus quality time, like in the last chapter but longer... It doesn't bother me ;)

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
Apr 11 2007 12:08 pm   #18Guest

Hello...although I do not understand every single word of your story due to my lack of vocabulary, I nevertheless appreciate your work and the emotions behind it,which already become quite obvious at the very beginning of this fanfiction. 

This site is a Spuffy Shipper...yeah right...but nevertheless you really need to understand the complexity of Spikes character! And this is only possible by giving an insight into his life before Buffy, before he turned out to be a champion!

Please keep on wirting, your story is fantastic and soooooo beautiful!

And most importantly: It differs so much from the rest of the fanfictions!

MOa from Germany

Apr 12 2007 02:51 am   #19Immortal Beloved

"Your story is brilliant and different and fascinating.  Darkness bothers and scares lots of folks.  Let them seek the lighter fare and miss all the lovely stars you only see in the dark."

RIGHT ON, pfeifferpack! :nod:  

I don't think that I need to point this out 'cause I think that you already know my opinion of FtTP, but: you story is definitely in the top five best pieces of fanfic that I've read.    I'm a very discerning reader, and I don't say these things lightly.  I've only been reading for a little over a year, but I've read A LOT of fanfic.  I've read a lot of the older stuff that's posted out there.  I've read more recent stuff.  I've read short ones and long ones, one-shots and 300 chapter epics.  I've read what people have touted as the best works by writers that people have proclaimed the premier Spuffy fanfic authors on the 'net.  I have no idea how many stories that I've read, but it's definitely in the multi-hundreds.  So, to say that FtTP is in the top five is saying a lot, especially considering that we've only read one part so far :)  Anyway, just keep what doing you're doing, exactly the way you're doing it.  You're writing a very original story, and if some readers want to read the same type of story over and over again, let them.  But I'll be reading no matter how much blood our fair William spills :)

Give me Spuffy, or give me death.
Apr 12 2007 03:18 am   #20Maggie2

Hey UB, there are ways in which your story is not my cuppa.  But despite that, I read it, avidly, because it's very well-written and quite original.  And one of its biggest strengths is exactly that you aren't trying to white-wash vampirism.  Indeed, I think you are laying the foundations for a story that will be quite arresting in part III.  So I'm delighted to hear that you have no intention to cave to some very dopey reviewers.

I do wonder, however, if part of their dismay at the evilness of vampire William-becoming-Spike is because unlike the actual Spike, this one already knows Buffy.  If it was love of Buffy that put Spike onto the road of redemption, then why isn't it working here?  Personally, I don't like the idea that Spike's redemption was just because he fell for Buffy.  I think it's more complicated than that.  And your story is perfectly positioned to explore that complexity.  But I raise the issue because if people think that it's a quick step from falling for Buffy to deciding to be a white hat, this story is harder to handle.  (Not sure if that makes sense...)

Apr 12 2007 05:46 am   #21Unbridled_Brunette

Wow, thanks so much for all the support, everyone. I'm really flattered that so many of you are enjoying my story. :)

Maggie, in regards to your comment about having known Buffy not keeping William(Spike) on the straight and narrow...I'm not sure why readers would be confused. Spike fell in love with Buffy and became a better man for her. William was a good man who lost Buffy. Had she not left, and he had been turned anyway, I seriously doubt he would have gone down the path he has. But he has nothing to lose at this point--nothing except the "family" he has found in Angelus and Dru. He has a demon in him that is urging him towards evil; he has his new "family" urging him towards evil. He has absolutely no incentive to rein in his baser urges, so he doesn't. Does that make sense?

(And I'm not saying that you don't understand the storyline, just that some readers might not.)

Thanks everyone for reading. :D

Faithfully bowing at the altar that is Stephen Colbert
Apr 12 2007 05:54 am   #22Maggie2

It was just a thought to try to understand where some of your readers might be coming from.  It might not have fully registered that from William's POV Buffy is gone -- since they *know* she's going to be in his future!  Or maybe they just think he should stay good due to the purity and light of his memory of her.  Or maybe they just want their fluffy Spuffy stuff with Spike's nasty past firmly left out of mind! 

Meanwhile, just keep on telling your story!!  (I'm someone who was reading it over on your old website, and who got left hanging for months and months and months!  I'm so glad it's alive and kicking.)

Apr 12 2007 12:28 pm   #23jess2357

Hey, thought I should add to the love fest for your story. Very rarely does someone really depict Spike as the show flashbacks did - he was BAD! You have rapidly gone into my favourite authors on the basis of this (and your generally brilliant writing). Need more stories like yours.

Apr 13 2007 11:23 am   #24pfeifferpack
LOL well I have a reader who evidently wants more dark. THe review I just got on one of my stories is upset because I didn't have Spike get the chip out since he "wants to kill Buffy" (that was Spike's drunken bluster just as on the show....he loves her, doesn't want to kill her any more than he wanted to rip her head off and drink from her brain stem!), The reviewer later implies that I don't like Spike since they later comment, "Why do people claiming to be Spike fans prefer to make him less of a man when they have the opportunity to fix it". I did try to explain Spike's not being less of a man, etc. but sigh......guess nothing would have pleased this person save a chipectomy (a minor issue in the story BTW). Reviews happen and some people don't get the idea of the story no matter what you do. Kathleen