My apologies to those of you who are too young to remember where the above quote comes from - it just seemed appropriate and a bit humorous. :)

My response to another thread that had almost deteriorated into personal attacks was getting too long, so I decided to do a new thread about an old subject. One that has come up over and over again, not just on here, but on other forums and (the source of all things kerfuffly) Live Journal.

Said subject being - the huge amount of room for misunderstanding that exists when all communication is taking place on a written forum.  We cannot see the twinkle in the eye, or the wink, of someone who is speaking tongue-in-cheek.  We cannot see the earnest desire to communicate in the eyes of someone who is having difficulty putting his/her thoughts into words that won't be misconstrued by someone else. Nor can we see the thoughtful nod that accompanies what may seem to be an argument, but which is actually just a writer thinking "out loud".

We've all seen it over and over again - someone posts an opinion, a question, an argument - whatever, and it generates a lot of response.  Usually, that's a good thing.  Everyone who follows the discussion, including the original poster, gets a chance to hear different viewpoints and to, perhaps, even consider an alternate opinion as points are made, refuted, and re-stated.  This is debate, and it is a good thing.  When you hear both sides (or, in some cases, all five or six sides...lol) of an issue, you may learn some new facts or be provided with a different look at the issue that causes you to revise your own opinion.  This isn't being wishy-washy or easily led (usually) - it is being open-minded, fair and reasonable.  You have your own set of facts, you are provided with additional information (or arguments - an argument is not necessarily a negative thing - "a statement or chain of reasoning tending to induce belief" sez my dictionary) and, upon reflection, you realize that you hadn't taken into consideration thus and such and now your opinion has shifted, been tweaked or even completely changed.  None of which can happen if no one is willing to take that chance and present that alternative argument.

Not that I think we have a lot of shrinking violets on this forum - LOL - but I wonder how many lurkers have ideas from which we could all benefit, but are afraid to speak up, lest they be buried under a flurry of disagreement?

I have the following suggestions:

When posting, let your comment sit for a bit and then reread it, searching for any possible ambiguity that might cause confusion.

Consider the language involved and try to avoid using words that could trigger negative reactions (bitch, bastard, asshole, prick, abusive, domineering, etc) to what you are saying. Using a word that carries heavily negative connotations for some people may cause them to miss the gist of your argument as they get lost in the emotional response triggered by the words you used. Not that there are not times when one of the above words wouldn't be appropriate and exactly what is called for, but look for those other times when you can state your case in a non-inflammatory way.

When reading a post that makes you go "WTF?", pause, take a deep breath, read it again.  Before you respond, be sure that you have read it carefully and that you are responding to what the author actually said, rather than to your own emotional reaction to something in it.

Then phrase your response, being careful to restate what you think the author said, so that he/she can have an opportunity to correct any misunderstanding. I would suggest that anytime there is a post in which the poster seems to be saying something that is clearly "wrong" (or that is likely to be perceived as such), that a good first reaction might be to ask for clarification.  "If I understood you correctly, you are saying....blah, blah, blah."  This allows the poster to correct any misconceptions, if they exist, or to repeat his/her arguments in another way that may be more clear.

Surely, if we all follow these little <strike>rules</strike> hints, we can keep our forum discussions to their usual respectful and thoughtful levels and have disagreements without causing anyone to feel that they've been attacked or dismissed out-of-hand.

But it can't happen if people are afraid to express their opinions for fear of being overwhelmed by the negative responses.  Since so many of us are writers, why not view every post on the forum as an exercise in writing clearly and concisely? (Do NOT use my posts as an example of "concisely" lol).

Sorry this is so long - I may reread it later and do some editing. LOL

Aha the great 20th century philosopher Rodney King!  I quote him often. (not totally sarcasm either, lots of wisdom in his words).

Ata that we should play nicely.  Different opinions are fine and no one should be stiffled but we have common ground and should stand firm on that. 

Kathleen

willing to admit to age *G*

Ah, another of the wisewomen of the verse speaks up.  Wise woman sounds so much better than old crone, don't you think?  LOL  I don't really think anyone was not playing nicely - but unfortunately, the visitor felt that was the case; and it's been a long time since I've seen a reminder that the words we write and send off into the air sometimes aren't saying quite what we thought they were.  Thought it wouldn't hurt to mention it.

Well put, slaymesoftly.  I, for one, do usually follow your suggested guidelines as a rule of my own.  I actually find it easier sometimes to think before I write than to think before I speak.  As a child, I caused my mother much grief and embarrassment as I NEVER thought before I spoke and said what some would consider rude things to family members and lots of unsuspecting strangers who stood with their mouths agape at the pig-tailed little girl with the acerbic tongue :-P  

It took many years and a job dealing with the public to hone my still sort of rusty skill of tact.  Don't get me wrong: I still let words fly and land where they may.  I wouldn't be my lovable, loud-mouthed self if I didn't :-)  But there is a time and a place for everything.  And, as you've so diplomatically pointed out, forum posts can often be construed in a way other than the writer intended.  However, with that in mind, perhaps it would also be good for those reading other's posts to take things with a proverbial grain of salt and try not to get too keyed up when someone expresses an opinion that doesn't mesh with their own :-)

Oh, I remember Rodney King's words, and I'm not old at all :-P

Wonderful post, slaymesoftly. A nice reminder to us all.

Another good way to keep yourself out of trouble, if you're joking, is to use smilies. Since we don't have our voices or faces to convey emotion, it's always helpful (especially if in doubt about your chosen words) to use a bit of a visual aid to show that you mean it all in good fun. Most of my posts are peppered in smilies, just so there won't be any confusion about my intentions.

P.S. I hope I've never offended anyone on this board, and if I have, tell me! I'm a very non confrontational person, so if you think I'm trying to annoy or offend you, chances are I just haven't presented myself well. :)

Well said.  And, thank you.  Sometimes we all need reminding that these discussions are supposed to be fun. :) We're all friends here.

The smilies (or just LOL or *g*) are a good idea, UB.  It always helps, if you're being funny, to be sure that people know you don't mean for the remark to be taken seriously.  Careful reading and careful replying should be all it takes to keep discussions interesting and still civil.  I think our forum is a wonderful thing and would hate to see it turn into a place that new people are afraid to talk.  Not that I think that's happened, but just in case...

Well, this is kinda on the topic, but also a semi request/suggestion thingy.  If any of you have Yahoo IM, then you know what I'm talking about.  Those smilies are really good as for indicating expression, and perhaps more of a variety of smilies might be good to use in the forum, and clear up any misunderstandings in the future.

Just a thought :D

As a counterpoint (and not to be a bitch), sometimes people are too sensitive, and it doesn't matter how you say it, if you disagree with their argument, you are attacking them personally.  not everyone can separate debate from debater and that shouldn't necessarily become the problem of the person/people who disagree with them.

People who want to be offended usually will be, no matter how it's presented.

It's also been my experience that those who are too tentative in every exchange for fear of offending everyone, bottle a lot and end up being passive aggressive.  So just because something is polite on the surface doesn't mean it's genuine. (and no I'm not accusing anyone on this thread of being passive aggressive.  This is a general observation about human behavior.) 

I also don't want people to be afraid to talk.  I think sometimes topics get heated and a bit personal and sometimes flamey.  And I think sometimes people Do need to step back.  Though I don't think the recent discussion got to that point.  I didn't see anybody start talking bad about anybody's momma or their general intelligence.  I didn't see anyone attacking anyone personally at all. 

Probably I could stop capitalizing so many words as that looks like screaming, but really I'm trying to show more emphasis on one word than others around it so that my meaning becomes clear and doesn't get lost in my verbosity.  Though I think it just makes me end up looking crazy. :P

ETA: Sorry, this is getting verbose, but I was probably a little too harsh here.  Given my own issues with irrational outbursts I should be a bit more understanding of the fact that people aren't always in control of how they feel.

ROFL, Zoe.  No, good points, all of them.  No matter what you do, you cannot be responsible for what others think you said.  I wasn't implying that that particular convo was too over the top - just saying that when debates get heated like that, it is important for both readers and writers to be sure they are responding as unambiguously as possible.  And, it never hurts anyone to apologize if they accidentally do offend or hurt someone else.  You're right - some people will take offense no matter what, and as long as you know you didn't deliberately set out to offend them, all you can do is shrug and hope that everyone else who read your post "got" it. :)

Hey, as long as my posts get, I'm just happy if people "read" it. :P

ROFL