ok by my last thread it might have been noticed that when i get something in my head it bugs me lol [its a small head] so i'd thought i'd ask the lovely people on here for views [not sleeping at mo so gives me more time to think [[poor poor world!]] ]

if it's already been asked then please feel free to kick my backside into the right direction to save you having to answer questions already been answered

if Buffy hadn't jumped at the end of S5 would there have been nicer spuffy earlier on? spuffy that wouldn't of ended in tears? i've just been watching s5 and the end eppys before the whole jumping i was like aww..something was going on there... the 'you treat me like a man' speech and her face when Spike says that...

wasn't the Gift ment to be the last episode but then they moved channels [or networks, im not sure it changed channels enough times in Britain] so maybe that's an idea Joss wanted to leave hanging, that Buffy and Spike could have been together had it not been for her death? what always gets me is Spike's face when they look at the body..so sad.....

so does anyone think the same or am i really just someone with no social life and too much time?

The Gift was meant to be a "just in case" ending. They were negotiating with UPN at the time and pretty sure it would work out, but the deal wasn't wrapped up as of the time they finished the episode. So, they could end the series on it "just in case". But Joss was totally ready to go on the next season.

He tried to plan it as if each season could be the end, since they always feared cancellation.

CM

And I do think they could have had a happier Spuffy time.....but Joss doesn't like happy couples, so we probably wouldn't have gotten it from him, anyway.

Well, part of the angst but also part of what drew her to him, was a shoulder to cry on about her death and being ripped from heaven and having heinous friends....etc

So if she hadn't died, here's what my educated guess is what would've happened. Well, if she didn't die then it would've been Dawn, of course. So her asshole friends would've probably tried to have been all "well she wasn't your real sister anyway" thinking THAT would help. So she probably would've turned to the ONE person that loved her sister and recently deceased mother as much as she did -- Spike. Would she have treated him as badly? Hmm, hard to tell... she might have been more willing to diss her friends' control if they were being insensitive about her sister's death and showing they complete lack of care that way, but you never know.

And if they'd prevented the portal from opening, then Dawn would continue to encourage her sister in being friends (and more) with Spike like they were getting to...

There are fics dealing with it, of course.

I may have pointed this out in another thread, but I don't remember (but I do touch upon it in this new fic I'm working on), but it most certainly would've been a happy Spuffy.

One- there was no real reason for her to bring Spike along for the ride once Glory knew who Dawn was.  Giles is capable of hotwiring a stolen vehicle.  Therefore, she obviously cared about his wellbeing to some extent, and the whole "strong enough to fight Glory, yada yada yada" business.

Two, when Giles and Xander try to make him leave the trailer, she shuts them down immediately with her "This isn't a discussion- he stays."  This showed he had her support.

And three, of course, re-inviting him into her home, knowing how much it would mean to him.  Also, he knew that he had her trust.

Oh, and four- she kissed him.  Now, that was way important.  Buffy didn't go around just kissing any ol' body, especially not some *thing* she considers a monster.  Sure, it wasn't a romantic kiss, but it definitely meant something (maybe...some kind of thank you that was really sincere).

Knowing all of this, and how she wasn't afraid to stand up to her friends... I really don't get why she did a 180 in s6, particularly when he was the only one she could talk to.

I always wondered why she kissed him on the lips. Was it just to imitate being the bot, still, because the bot was full-on friendly? A kiss on the cheek does perfectly well for saying thank you. Or even a soft kiss on the forehead...  But she goes for the lips.

CM

I wholeheartedly believe that the Spuffy would have been happy if Buffy hadn't jumped from the tower.  Let's assume that Buffy was always attracted to Spike.  I know it's a bit of a stretch to think that a girl would think that he was hot, but work with me here   Then we have to consider the major Buffy/Spike interactions up to Chosen.

"Something Blue": Willow says for Buffy to marry Spike, not to fall in love with him.  People don't have to love each other to get engaged or to get married.  The divorce rate is high enough to substantiate that claim.  And we don't have to assume that Buffy was in love under the spell.  She says so herself: "I loved him."  This could indicate that, if given the right circumstances, Buffy could indeed fall in love with Spike without the aid of a spell.

"Intervention": When Buffy finds out that Spike didn't tell Glory that Dawn is the key, she gives him a kiss (albeit a chaste kiss), and then tells him that what he did was real and that she won't forget it (although we all know that Heaven seems to have caused selective amnesia ).  Buffy kisses Spike.  I agree that this was probably a platonic thank-you kiss.  However, a thank-you kiss does not have to be given on the lips.  In fact, I’d venture to say that most platonic thank-you kisses are bestowed upon the cheek.  Also, when does Buffy ever give anybody a thank-you kiss on the mouth?  Xander saves her freaking life when the Master drowns her, and she doesn’t so much as give the boy a hug.  Giles helps Buffy countless times, and we don’t see a thank-you kiss on the cheek.  Buffy gets a curious look on her face, and plants one on Spike.  Personally, I think that this is the moment that Buffy falls in love with Spike (however subconsciously), but that’s not the point right now.  The point is that this is the moment when Buffy learns to trust Spike, not to doubt his love for her, and opens herself up to the possibility of Spike.  The kiss is trying him on for size

“The Gift”:  Buffy entrusts Spike with protecting Dawn, whom Buffy considers the person most valuable to her.  She invites him back into her home.  And when Spike says, “I know you’ll never love me,” Buffy does not agree with him; but, more importantly, she does not disagree with him.  We all know that in Season Six, Buffy is very adamant that she does not, cannot, and will not love Spike.  I think that it’s important to note here that Buffy seems to still be open to the possibility of Spike.

Throughout the latter part of Season Five, Buffy begins to trust Spike more and more, and she begins to entrust Spike with more and more things.  She starts to rely upon him to take care of Dawn in her stead, to fight at her side, to watch her back…and not to stab her in it   Buffy opens herself to the possibility of Spike; and, if she hadn’t died and gotten the pearly gates Spike-can-be-trusted mindwipe, perhaps there would have been happy Spuffy

No, no, no.  Sorry, but there's no way that there would have been happy Spuffy.  Why?  Because Joss is evil and because happy stories don't make good drama.  He would have got Spike and Buffy together, but there would have been hell to pay.

Also, when Buffy comes into Spike's crypt, pretending to be the bot, why doesn't Spike (a) smell her sweat (presumably the Bot doesn't sweat) and (b) hear her heartbeat?  Hmmm???  He apparently doesn't realize it's the Human Buffy until she kisses him. 

I agree, the ground work was being laid for something that could have grown - but, I also agree that Joss would never have let it happen. lol

As far as Buffy pretending to be the bot - I operate (when I write about it) on the assumption that Spike was too close to unconsciousness and in too much pain to question the bot until she was close enough for him to feel her warmth. I didn't really get a sense of "WTF"? from that scene. It worked for me because he was in such bad shape he just took the "bot" at face value.

because he'd just had the stuffing knocked out of him! he could barely even sit up, i doubt he could concentrate on much more than the pain of his broken bones... then when she kissed him, i dont think the bot would've been known for chaste, tender kisses, so the unusual-ness of it made him think...

And i agree with whoever said there would never be a happy spuffy ending... I think with different circumstances they could have been happily together... for awhile... but Joss just doesnt like happy couple endings, so without his approval....... no chance

I wasn't saying that Joss would have actually written happy Spuffy, just that that would have been the logical progression for the groundwork laid.  In the Jossverse, Buffy did jump from the tower and come back with her hate on.  In the SANEverse, Buffy would have given Spike a chance

 :nod: yes i agree, if Joss was a sane person it could have worked out that way. But I guess we'll never know for sure.

Even after she came back tho... it was only after OMWF and the kiss that she started treating him like dirt... before that she was actually somewhat pleasant to him.

I have a feeling the bot was made as realistically as possible, so she probably had a simulated heartbeat. She couldn't have felt like cold plastic if Spike was going to enjoy sex with the bot.

CM

 but Joss just doesnt like happy couple endings

That's so on the money, guest!

There's not one couple anywhere in the Jossverse that is allowed to be happy for very long. Joss is brilliant, but he is also an evil, evil man!

It's probably one of the main reasons I don't want to see a Spike movie... I just know that Joss would do something horrible and cruel to our poor vampire.