BSV Forum - General - The Bloodshedpub

Buffy Decoy in Rome?

Oct 07 2007 04:54 pm   #1Guest

I haven't read any of the S8 comics, so basically my knowledge of the show doesn't go much beyond watching it on TV and DVD. But what is the whole deal about Buffy not really being in Rome and the decoy thing. All of a sudden, Andrew, the boy who couldn't tell a lie like his life depended on it in S7 comes up with this master plan of a decoy and fools not only both Angel and Spike but also the mysterious Immortal - three people who have at least centuries of experience dealing with people and would be able to tell when people are lying, whe know Spike can be extremely perceptive when he wants to be.

My other big problem with the whole "decoy" idea is the book Queen of Slayers by Nancy Holder. I haven't read much more than flipping through it while perusing the bookstore but I do know that it clearly shows that it IS Buffy in Rome (not a decoy), she knew that Spike and Angel were in Rome and that she had at least something going on with the Immortal. All opinions regarding the Immortal's character aside, the book shows these basic facts.

Now, I dont pretend to know the policies of those particular editors, publishers, etc involved in printing the books, but in order for that book to be published as on official Buffy the Vampire Slayer book, at minimum, the basic plot had to be approved. Buffy being in Rome is one of the most basic elements of this published BtVS book.

So what do you guys think?

The book was printed not long after "Never Fade Away" and years before the comics. So did Joss change his mind after the fact, to fit his comics, or are we supposed to throw out official BtVS books, which Joss would have had to approve before they could be sold as BtVS books, in favor of the comics. Andrew going from a pathetic and annoying geek who can't lie to save his life to an effective liar and mastermind that can fool three people who'd be able to see through all but the best of liars.

PS To anyone who's read the entire book Queen of the Slayers and/or the comics, specific details regarding the two versions of Buffy what is supposed to be happening with Buffy would be appreciated - for example, in the book, how did she react to finding out Spike was alive.

Thx all,

Anna

Oct 07 2007 08:45 pm   #2Maggie2

Hi Anna,

I don't think the novels were ever meant to be canonical.  The Wikipedia entry on the topic says it's not clear how much attention was paid by Joss to the material when it was given basic approval.  In any case, Joss has declared the comics to be canon.  Whether the fans accept them as canon or not is still up in the air -- but from Joss's POV, the Buffy in Rome was a decoy.  Period.

Over on LJ there's a pretty solid group of people who really hate the comics, precisely because there are bizarre discontinuities.  Andrew is definitely one of them.... though we already got a glimpse of that bizareness in AtS 5.  Andrew is now a Junior Watcher?  Huh?   As for Andrew's ability to lie and not be detected by Spike: as I recall, at the end of Damage, Spike and Angel decide they've been played by Andrew -- so we have one canonical instance in which Andrew was able to play a role and go undetected by Spike.

Oct 07 2007 09:46 pm   #3Eowyn315

Ditto what Maggie said. The books aren't canon; the comics are. Also, we've discussed this on another thread, but I don't think Andrew was the one who came up with the "master plan." I think the decoy idea is something that Giles, Xander, and Buffy came up with - Buffy's reasoning in the comic is because she's a target and it's dangerous. So, they made it seem like Buffy was retired and living in Rome, while the real Buffy is still out in the field. 

As far as I can tell, the only thing that was Andrew's idea was to have the Buffy decoy date the Immortal. In one sense, it's a good idea - the Immortal seems to command respect in the demon world, so it'd be good protection for the decoy. And it's also "hilarious" to Andrew because of the Immortal's history with Angel and Spike.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Oct 08 2007 10:25 pm   #4goldenusagi

I wonder why the Immortal would care, or agree.  Just to get at Spike and Angel?  And what about the logic of putting someone (even a double) with him?  If he's really part of the demon world, why are Buffy & co. playing nice?  Or maybe he's just not "evil" evil.  I can't remember, but the only TV reference we have to the Immortal is in Angel's TGIQ, right?

Oct 09 2007 02:45 am   #5Guest

  Buffy's reasoning in the comic is because she's a target and it's dangerous.

So she's put a bunch of baby slayers in danger instead? Why not just paint huge targets on their backs. That doesn't seem right to me.

Oct 09 2007 02:55 am   #6Eowyn315

I don't think the Immortal really cares about getting at Spike and Angel. As for why he's in the situation, there are a few options - one, the Immortal actually likes the decoy, and doesn't know he's not dating the real Buffy. Since he's never met the real Buffy, would he really know the difference?

Second, he does know he's not dating the real Buffy, but he likes the decoy and wants to date her, so he plays along with her undercover identity. It probably wouldn't hurt his reputation, being known as the boyfriend of the most famous Slayer ever, as opposed to just one of the masses of newly-activated Slayers.

Or third, he knows he's not dating the real Buffy, and he's doing it for the Council, possibly as a job. Like I said in my earlier post, his reputation among the demon world would probably offer the decoy some protection - who's going to mess with the Immortal's girlfriend, even if she is a Slayer? So, the "relationship" is purely for show, and the Immortal's real role is protection, for which the Council would be paying him.

And to answer your other questions, we don't know that he's really evil. Angel and Spike seem to think he's evil, but they're not exactly unbiased here. The worst we can say about the Immortal, from TGIQ (which, yes, is the only reference to him), is that he's kind of a jerk. But that doesn't make him evil.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.